FV for Veefan's kids

[Bill Bonow]

Here is a UK built GAC that raced in the German Formel Vau series. The Germans have gone to the extreme on updating their FV program

This looks like just the car for John's kids

[gbmetcalf]

Kids, heck I want one!

[lawyerbob]

I love that! Are they still powered by the air cooled motor? Tell us more Bill!

[Bill Bonow]

It's funny that in the US, FV is pretty close to the original rules almost 50 years later. For the Germans, who didn't start FV racing until '67 or so, they have changed their cars until they are hardly recognizable as an FV (at least from an American point of view).

They currently run a 1300 cc (might be 1400cc) VW Polo water cooled 4 cylinder. But as you can see, still using a ball joint beam. Look close enough and see they are running a swing axle gearbox. I guess what ever floats your boat. Seems to work for them as the series has grown in the last 10 years.

If you read German, here is their website: www.formel-v.de

[Matt King]

Interesting cars. Looks like they are using some kind of radial street tire too.

[Bill Bonow]

Matt,

Yes, sort of a wacky combo...... wings and street radials

Although, some think the American FV is just as silly. "Soft gummy slicks on an entry level car, it makes no sense". Heard that a number of times from overseas FV contacts.

[veefan]

24 year old... "now that looks pretty cool!" "that doesn't look like a pinewood car"

17 year old... "get me one of those, would that be legal in your class"
my response was maybe by the time your my age!

That would get them racing tomorrow!!!!

THANKS, looks like we're moving Germany to race in the German Formel Vau series!!

[Rick Kirchner]

would be interesting to see the cost delta is between the german and US cars.

[Bill Bonow]

Rick,

Good question, can't say. I do know (heard through grapevine) that about 20 years ago, VW GmbH (who is very much involved in motorsport, much unlike VWoA) subsidized Formel Vau with really good deals and assistance with rule changes with sanctioning body on the Polo engines now used.

My bet is that the tires (if some form of ST is used) the cost is less, but have no evidence.

[Bob VanDyke]

I think Veefan's kids have hit the major problem with FV, FST and FF. When FV and FF started in the '60s they looked a lot like Indy cars and Formula One cars of the era. While "rules stability" made sense when plenty cheap parts were available, after 25-30 years that stability forced obsolescence. The cars are not visually or mechanically relevant any more. For that it would seem there needs to be more high-revving motorcycle engined cars with wings and fat tires. A ladder system with 600cc, 750cc and then the current FB seems to make way more sense than the SCCA's Formula Alphabet.

So how 'bout it? Who wants to dump their current inventory (not investment!) and follow my vision of the perfect race world?

[gbmetcalf]

I've been in the SCCA for a while, left to race elseware and came back.
I became involved because I talked to a soloII guy at a car show at the local mall back in the early 80's
What I have seen over the years.

1. We suck at promoting our club let alone our classes.
2. We could learn a few lessons from the roundy rounds of this word.(you dont see little dirt
road corses popping up all over to run clone carts on do you?)
3. If you can't have spectators you are destined to be invisable.
4. In order to grow we need to get KIDS involved and with the current format we cannot.
5. We need more grass roots starter/feeder classes that invlove kids at a young age. Go to
your local dirt cart track on friday or saturday and just see the throngs of kids that we as
a club could be molding into the next formula V drivers....

I agree we need to evolve but we need to change our thinking as well.

G.

[Jeff Mott]

Brian is correct. Of course VW of AMerica doesnt want to be involved as they dont sell anything remotely connect to FV. We have the same problems in road racing in karting. Without visibility to the general public how can you develop interest or get newbies into the sport. Way too many classes with a lot of them tied to antique design. Look around at the average age of participants. See any young folks? Both WKA, SCCA and IKF are ripe for a new sanctioning body to steal their future.

[2BWise]

The cars are not visually or mechanically relevant any more. For that it would seem there needs to be more high-revving motorcycle engined cars with wings and fat tires.

Bingo! FF in it's current guise is pretty close. Basically the full monty just without the wings. FST does a good job at mimicking it. The only problem with the German series, as I understand it from former German colleagues, is that amateur racing doesn't really exist like it does over here. Therefore, rules don't quite matter so much as the Average Joe isn't the one funding his own effort.

As interesting market research exercise would be to survey a bunch of FSAE students for what type of car they'd be most interested in racing after graduation. A lot of those grads will have the drive and interest to race in SCCA. Give them a realistic scenario; budget, time, resources, and a list of entry level classes and see where they'd want to end up. Many will want to hop straight to FC or FB, but realistically, fresh out of college, that's not an option. I'd put my money on FST and F600 being the top two choices.

[lawyerbob]

. The cars are not visually or mechanically relevant any more. For that it would seem there needs to be more high-revving motorcycle engined cars with wings and fat tires. A ladder system with 600cc, 750cc and then the current FB seems to make way more sense than the SCCA's Formula Alphabet.

Not the place for the discussion (don't want to take the thread off-course) but IMHO you're 100% right. If the BOD adopts the F600 Rules proposal that is currently pending, I think we can all assume where the "new kids" will be headed. Maybe some old kids too.

[gbmetcalf]

I may have been the reason for the hard left turn in this thread....
I love the looks of this car side pods and all! Might attract the younger crowd

G.

[Bill Bonow]

G. Brian,

No harm, no foul. Beyond the posts made by me and my mate Ray Filetti from New South Wales, the International section of the FST forum is pretty much just a place to post about other FV varients from around the globe.

It's nice to see a little activity here. Most people don't realize the variation the Formula Vee has gone through on a global basis. We (USA) started it and kept it pretty darn much the same. Go overseas and the formula has changed. A little in some places and a lot in places like Germany.

When you make that comparison, FV to FST is really not that huge of a strech.

[Rolling Stone]

Germans have progressed or whatever because they build the best cars in the world and are brilliant engineers.