Unavailability of Dunlop FF tires

[Robert J. Alder]

In case you missed it, Dunlop apparently won't be delivering any new FF tires "for the rest of the racing season." CLICK HERE for just released details

RMVR's Bulletin Board has started a discussion about the problem. We're awaiting some input from Monoposto to see what they're going to do. Apparently most clubs (RMVR and Monoposto included) use the Dunlop as the only spec tire approved for vintage.

[Al Murray]

Bob,

SOVREN has already made the announcement that the Avon ACB9 tire will be the acceptable replacement tire till such time that Dunlop can get it's act together. According to Krause this tire is very similar, has a stiffer sidewall and costs just a bit more and is the only acceptable similar replacement tire.

I saw in a post recently that some groups in Europe allow both the Dunlop and the Avon ACB9. It will be interesting to see how the Avons work next to the Dunlops.

It might be a good time to look at the street radial RMVR was looking at a couple of years ago.

AL Murray
SOVREN Co-Competition Chairman

[Robert J. Alder]

Al,
Yes, we looked at a street radial, but at the time concluded that they weren't what the group wanted. One of them (a Yokohama?) turned out to be at the end of its production so wouldn't be available. The other (Don't remember brand) was slow, slow slow an we didn't collectively feel that RMVR wanted to be "rogue" club. Plus, if we were to use them, those who travel would still have to buy Dunlops for use when running with other clubs.

[Lotus7]

We ran FFords on a variety of street radials in Canada for several years, depending on which manufacturer was sponsoring the series that year; racing wasn't slow and wasn't boring....

[Robert J. Alder]

And there is our roots, the original FF was on street tires.

[Albatross]

What's the problem with Dunlop this time?

[Robert J. Alder]

See "CLICK HERE" in first post. No delivery of tires for the rest of the race season. Other than that, no problem.

[LolaT340]

We're facing the same problem here in NZ...and everyone is slowly switching to the Avons. They are stickier than the Dunlop, which means a bit faster, but also wear out a bit faster too.

[marty7]

I am still unsure about the Avons, I struggled to get them to work for me at the Amon Festival. I was quicker in the VD on my old Dunlops. I prefer Dunlops. How can a manufacturer not produce a prodcut that we the buyer want to buy?

[Wes Allen]

Maybe it's time to consider real racing tires???
Hoosier R60

[Roland V. Johnson]

Too many people refuse to admit that these cars ran on slicks in period.

[snettleship]

Well, this is a pain. I got the Crossle last year which was running on Hoosier slicks as a club ford. I replaced them with Dunlops for vintage and was on the wait list with SASCO for a 2nd set. The set I have is ok but if a get a puncture or damage I'll be out of luck.

I ran Avon ACB9 tires on 6 inch rims with my Lotus Seven Series 4 in SVRA and VDCA. I thought they were the fastest of my tire choices. That car was 1200lbs (no driver) so I have an idea what their performance would be like in a FF. I don't think they have s much durability as the Dunlops, but I think they would be a good choice as a replacement in the short term. I used Yokohama A038 on the Lotus for a while and was satisfied with them as a street crossover tire.

I'll defer to the experts in this area but hope I don't have to show up to the track with only one set of tires (especially when I have 10 spare wheels available) for the rest of the year.

[Blah]

Martin the middle pedal is to stop not go. Viva la Lola!

[philippe C]

it would be a great mistake to move to "racing " slick .those car were made to go with street radial and narrow one . i remenber in the 80s when formula ford in north america (not in england) were on goodyear slick not a good show ,the last thing a FF need is too much grip "boring"

[JustDave]

Just as much fun to drive and john-Q-public (asa spectators) saw them as 'Real' racecars' with slicks. No official survey but from talking and listening to people at shows and displays back then. A friend of mine also noted slicks were a smoother ride.
Dave

[snettleship]

I guess my biggest objection to slicks would be that there would have to be a mandated rain tire also. Of course people can choose to never run on in the "wet", but to me having a single treaded tire, even if it's only moderately good in wet conditions is one less expense I need. Not to mention my trailer/truck is pretty full now.

[Roland V. Johnson]

My experience with the American Racers, is that the grip level is not much more than the Dunlops. Lap time difference in the .5 to 1 second range on most tracks.

[timos]

I had Roland's experience at Thunderhill in back to back sessions, where there were both vintage and modern grids, and I ran a T340 on Dunlops and American Racers (on different wheels, of course).

It probably is car (and driver) dependent, but I was surprised at how well the Dunlops compared. Or, to flip it around, the American Racers were ~ 0.5 sec faster.

I would *not* say the same about a Dunlop/Avon comparison, at least on a BT21 where the deifference was night and day.

tim

[Roger Eade]

I was talking to the Dunlop guys at the Ruapuna round of the V8's and asked about FF tyres,was told later in the year, but he also said there was no money in it for them, I took that with a gain of salt, as I know of a lot of people here wanting them, plus the rest of the world would take the other 50%, so there has to be a dollar or two to be made. In NZ, I think it was about 1972ish to about 1974 we ran slicks, and I have brought this up with some race organizers, but they have just said no! but if enough were to run them, I guess they would have to come to the party, but it would have to be one brand of tyre, could be something for the Historic Commission to talk about at the AGCM !
Roger

[LolaT340]

I had Roland's experience at Thunderhill in back to back sessions, where there were both vintage and modern grids, and I ran a T340 on Dunlops and American Racers (on different wheels, of course).

It probably is car (and driver) dependent, but I was surprised at how well the Dunlops compared. Or, to flip it around, the American Racers were ~ 0.5 sec faster.

I would *not* say the same about a Dunlop/Avon comparison, at least on a BT21 where the deifference was night and day.

tim

Between the Dunlop and the Avon, what did you find the difference to be, which was quicker? (Apart from the theoretical night and day reference of course...)

[85 SWIFT DB1]

Bought a set this morning. There's a rush on the last ones available we are told.

Will look nice on my new old Swift Centrelines all the way from Wisconsin USA.

Thanks Apex!

[timos]

Between the Dunlop and the Avon, what did you find the difference to be, which was quicker? (Apart from the theoretical night and day reference of course...)

It was a somewhat unfair comparo. The Monoposto-spec Dunlops were taller and harder and had a flexier sidewall which flexed perceptibly. The car was not as predictable as I would have liked. The Monoposto-spec Avons were shorter, apparently softer, and had more tread on the ground and a stiffer sidewall. The car seemed to really open up and gave much better feeedback. So the Avons were at least a second quicker on the BT21 FB (the kind of FB without a chain drive).

None of this may apply to the FF tire sizes.

tim

[Blah]

The day we go to slicks with Historic FF in NZ is the day I stop racing an FF. If you want to run slicks by an FA.

[TimH]

Too many people refuse to admit that these cars ran on slicks in period.

But did slicks of the 70s stick as well as today's better street tires? Maybe at best comparable to today's "hard" slicks or were they even that good?

[bob darcey]

[SIZE=6]Monoposto Racing Announces Formula Ford Tire Changess[/SIZE]

Monoposto Racing has revised the Formula Ford tire specification for 2011 to include Avon, Hoosier, Toyo and Kumho tires, in addition to the Dunlop tires that have been the standard for many years. This change is being made because of a severe shortage of the Dunlop 9092 tires.

For 2011 drivers are allowed to select among several tires - Avon ACB9, the Hoosier Street TD, and street radials such as Toyo or Kumho, full tread. Tires selected must conform to the current size Formula Ford tire specification (front 135/545-13 and rear 165/580-13.) These alternate tires will be authorized through the end of 2012 and drivers using them will be able to compete for the Monoposto Formula Ford championship.

[snettleship]

Interesting, let's see how fast the Vintage groups announce if they are supporting the same.

[marty7]

Hi Blah, Finally found the original log book for the lotus 69 - with original photos. Car ran on slicks for formula ford in '76. Will have to see Bruce to get special dispensation, I should run the car as it was ;-)

For NZ FF historics treaded tyres look the part. I know it is discussion only but I can't see slicks being allowed in the Chocolate Fish championship. Slicks could be cheaper (a set of Hoosier slicks for the Ralt cost me similar money to the FF Dunlops), but could be less forgiving at the limit. Also the additional grip provided by slicks would give our cars a harder time with our standing starts. I bet there would be more broken drive/half shafts, failed clutchs, broken gears.

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the VD is harder on fronts due to understeer. Something I had never really noticed at Pukekohe as it is a very different track. As a comparison the Lotus understeers too but is far more gentle on the front tyres. I am tempted to try the Avons on the Lotus.

My preference is to stick with Dunlops as I am used to them and they work. Sadly I have to take a toughen up pill and get my head around the Avons.

Why Dunlop as a larger company can not make race tyre production profitable or a valued part of their core buisness absolutly baffles me. If smaller companies such as Hoosier and Avon can supply the racing fraternity and remain profitable (assuming given they are still in buisness) then why can't Dunlop ?

May go do the HD day early July, and if time allows August winter series meet. How about you ?

Marty

The day we go to slicks with Historic FF in NZ is the day I stop racing an FF. If you want to run slicks by an FA.

[Alouette61]

[FONT=Monaco]We have the same problem here in Canada, the FormulaTour serie decided to use the American Racer slicks... for the rest of this season.[/FONT]
[FONT=Monaco][/FONT]
[FONT=Monaco]Since Dunlop was bought by GoodYear, maybe they figured it would be better to sell 4 dry, 4 inter. and 4 rain for every car than just one set of Dunlop...[/FONT]

[marty7]

Hi, I see you are in quebec, I am currently in Levi, near Quebec city. I would love to meet a fellow FF racer. I flyout early Thursday. Free tomorrow evening. I race a Lotus 69 and own a VD RF80c

Martin

[FONT=Monaco]We have the same problem here in Canada, the FormulaTour serie decided to use the American Racer slicks... for the rest of this season.[/FONT]

[FONT=Monaco]Since Dunlop was bought by GoodYear, maybe they figured it would be better to sell 4 dry, 4 inter. and 4 rain for every car than just one set of Dunlop...[/FONT]