Data Aquisition in a CM FF

[syrarch04]

Noob alert! I'm new to FF and the CM class. I will be picking up a Zink Z10C to work on this winter. In looking at all the work I'll need to do, I started to think about installing a data acquisition unit. My question is, do you think it's worth the expense for a car that will only see autoX duty? It would be great to be able to analyze what is happening on the course, but by the time I'd be able to pour over the data the day would probably be over, and the course will never be the same. But that doesn't mean I couldn't learn from the data, right? I was looking at a kart system like Aim's MyCron 4 because of the low price point. Is there a problem using a kart system in a FF?

Thanks for your help!

Dustin

[MBillings]

Dustin,

Several years ago, I purchased a MaxQ Data System that worked really well with a co-driver. With a large enough run group, there was time to look at the data and determine who was faster, where. Many times we used the data after the event, but it was useful none the less.

However, since my co-driver moved away, I have found the MaxQ not very useful since there is no comparable. I can look at run-to-run comparisons, but that's not always useful since I don't know if my faster run is as fast as I can go or if a higher cornering force/exit speed/ exit is possible.

Now, I use a Hero Camera. When reviewing the run either during the event or after, I can determine if I'm close to the cones, initiating throttle when I think I should, review my lines, etc. It's a better tool (for me) because I can critique my runs without having a comparable.

Hope this helps,
Mike

[Jtovo]

I am really dont mean to push what I am selling but...

I am getting ready to put a full blown Motec ADL on the market. Shock sensors, mph, O2...massive memory upgrades, the whole deal. And I am thinking to list it for $3000.

I saw another really decked out Motec ADL recently for $5000 on this site.

Kart systems are great, but you need to decide what information you want to see.

With the right system, you can get traces done to verify gearing, under / oversteer and all kinds of crazy things. And it will benefit you. Use your data at home, to analyze your driving, you will get faster.

Saying all of this, call up a pro. Call Veracity or Tom at PI or any of the others and talk to them. I think if you have the coin, put $2000-$4000 in a system, set it up right and have a field day with the information if can provide.

If your just going to use it as a tach...dont spend the big money.

[Dick R.]

Noob alert! I'm new to FF and the CM class. I will be picking up a Zink Z10C to work on this winter. In looking at all the work I'll need to do, I started to think about installing a data acquisition unit. My question is, do you think it's worth the expense for a car that will only see autoX duty? It would be great to be able to analyze what is happening on the course, but by the time I'd be able to pour over the data the day would probably be over, and the course will never be the same. But that doesn't mean I couldn't learn from the data, right? I was looking at a kart system like Aim's MyCron 4 because of the low price point. Is there a problem using a kart system in a FF?

Thanks for your help!

Dustin

I've use G-analyst, GEEZ, and MaxQ over the years and am considering spending more money on something at least equal to the Race Technology DL-1. I've also used a Stack Recording tach to get some idea of rpm's given there is NO time to watch the tach while autocrossing.

Only the tach (max rpm and playback) have any relevance during an event.

However, the other DA is useful when trying to figure out what worked and what didn't on you own runs. You do this by comparing your segments with each other after the event while you still remember the course and what you did or what you screwed up.

I've used a GoPro Hero Wide some but due to repeated camera failures until the latest version I haven't really learned anything. The runs are fun to watch however.

Remember for autocrossing that you need to get a good idea of what setup and gearing/shifting works for most courses and most corners without screwing you in other situations. You cannot optimize like a track racer for particular situations other than general trends. Plus if you don't have a codriver and you are not really good yet you don't know how much was your learning curve and how much was tire temp increase from run to run.

Dick
Rusty as heck CM guy

[syrarch04]

Thanks for all your help so far guys. I will be looking for a co-driver, but unfortunately there are no experienced mod car folks in my region. It would be fun to learn along with someone else anyway though (and have a tire warmer!). There are no logistic problems with using a kart DA system are there?

[Kazis31]

i have installed AIM mycron plus on my FM and it worked.
however on my previous FF i had XLOG and apparently i got used to it so much that i took kart of and bought brand new XLOG for auto.
Kart system had 500 byte memory,RPM, beacon,speed and water temp.
It works fine and i'll be putting it up for sale for $300 plus shipping.
If you're interested it could be yours.
Only inconvenience is you would have to download info from logger much more often into your lap top,that would answer your question about using kart system on ff.

Also from my experience and also many other drivers AIM has superb customer service.
If you end up using it ask for Josh or Robie.

hope this helped.
Maris.

[Jim Garry]

Thanks for all your help so far guys. I will be looking for a co-driver, but unfortunately there are no experienced mod car folks in my region. It would be fun to learn along with someone else anyway though (and have a tire warmer!). There are no logistic problems with using a kart DA system are there?

Dustin,
It's great to hear that another CMod car will be in the NEDiv. Welcome! If we somehow manage to keep Seneca Army Depot as a site, I will be able to meet you there as I drive out there a half dozen times a season (from Albany).

I purchased a DL1 back when they were around $900 and I have learned a great deal about the car, about its drivers, and about the dynamics of autocrossing in general. The data generated is something that at the very least is a lot of fun to mess around with at home.

Don't worry about not being able to see the data real time. It IS possible to do so, you just have to prepare well and it is almost required to have someone else on your team to be able to see data before the next run. But many people feel it is a distraction to try to manipulate and/or view the data real time. I just set the thing to record and turn off automatically and forget about it until I get home.

If you are interested in coming to Albany, we have one site here (of 3 or 4) that you'd like. When the 2011 Mohawk Hudson Region Solo schedule comes out, look for a site called "Fortitech".

Are you going to attend the NEDiv MiniCon this weekend in Rochester? I will be there and we could chat.

Oh ... as for a co-driver, you might want to ask Karl Hughes. He drove my car once. He is very capable, would give you good feedback, and is a real gentleman.

Sincerely,

[Kazis31]

pics of aim plus kart.

[mike g.]

...do you think it's worth the expense for a car that will only see autoX duty?...

No. Spend your money on track time and tires.

regards,
Mike

[RussMcB]

No. Spend your money on track time and tires.

regards,
Mike

This has been an interesting thread. I'm a club road racer and it's been interesting thinking about DA from a parking lot perspective.


The two biggest benefits I've gotten from data are:

1. Comparing my graphs against a faster driver
2. Looking at data afterwards to solve a problem (fuel/oil pressure, battery voltage, water temp, etc.)

Early in my formula car driving career I saw I was 10 MPH slower than a fast buddy in a high speed corner. Prior to seeing the data overlays I assumed I was near the limit. I obviously wasn't.

Autocrossing is a challenge because you don't get to do multiple simultaneous laps on the same course, and you rarely come back to the same "track" lots of times.

I would say if you could do #1 above and the DA system was inexpensive, it *might* be worthwhile. Otherwise I agree with Mike. If the DA system doesn't have obvious value to help you go faster, it's just extra weight, hassle, money spent, etc.

But, having said that, data is cool to look at. It helps you look at and think about different things that were going on while you were driving. Also, you might be able to see when changes or conditions result in greater G-forces (lateral and longitudinally).

Also, another vote here for AIM. And maybe the kart version would be sufficient (I haven't compared them to the car versions).

[ewcmr2]

Check out the new ChaseCam DIVA. Data acquisition and up to four channels of video in one small box.

[CagleRacing]

How does AIM compare with Traqmate? I know several people with Traqmate, mostly tin lids, but not that familar with AIM. I have an F500 car currently setup for auto-x, but I'm working through my checklist to convert it for running time trials.

From what I've seen, I like Traqmate mostly for being able to compare against other drivers.

Cheers,
Steven