F1000 Builder or a thorn?

[MiniFormulaIndy]

Well you guys, you'd never know it from the post about us, but there were actually more supporters of our car than it looked when you read through the pages. The little website slash webpage had so many emails that we had to take extra time to read and answer them all. Some of you engineers said our suspension wouldn't work. Some of you drivers said "it's not safe enough for me". Some of you car builders said "it won't handle well enough to compete". I knew better and so did the half dozen very experienced racers that consulted with us during the construction of this version.

We had it on an oval track with a figure 8 in the middle this week and we ran it HARD for more than three hours in 90 degree heat. We experienced speeds that none of our cars had reached on this track. The car "stuck" so well on track that we barely touched the brakes and could've pushed much, much harder for quick times. We decided to test for "the long run" and keep it conservative for the common sense aspects of first time high speed testing. The ONLY issue we had was the material that our chain roller was made out of actually wore itself down towards the very end of the session. This issue is already corrected.
I know what's coming. This is the part of the post that you'll all begin instigating and flaming and everything that goes along with posting on a forum like this, but while I was turning laps in the second hour of practice I couldn't help thinking "I can't wait until those guys get word about this". Our body & wings aren't completed yet, but that did not stop us from unloading at the track for this test. Let's just say, you've all inspired us even more.

So, with that being said- This is our third year building cars and we are definately not going away. Let the flames fly...

[Fred Michael]

Do the same thing on a HIGH SPEED road course.
I see you still have not made the car SCCA legal.

People are giving you constructive criticism gleaned from years of experience and you just see it as elitism.
People are trying to give you HELPFUL advice. TAKE IT!!!

Fred Michael
Ex Indycar Mechanic

[mousecatcher]

no bodywork, no wings = no downforce = no problem. try running 3 hours when your car is pulliing 3g's lat and braking and i guarantee you'll be snookered. it may be the fastest you've gone but i also guarantee it is not at all competitive against any "standard" F1000 design. please share with us the lat g's you achieved in this test.

[RussMcB]

Unfortunately, words on the internet aren't going to do much to change anyones' opinions (proud builder's or skeptic readers'). This debate wont be settled until there are road course lap times to show it is either near the pace of current SCCA FB cars, or way off.

Are there plans to take it to a road course any time soon?

[coletrickle]

Ah yes, another internet battle... When will it ever cease?

I've been around racing my whole life, practically. Mostly "stock" cars (hence my user name) but I have dabbled in lower level open wheel, such as the snowmobile cars and some go-karting. In all aspects of racing, I always saw one detrimental "thorn" to all classes... COST.

I commend someone for attempting to build a similar mousetrap at a more affordable price. Is it wrong for someone to do this? Do we ridicule because we've already spent so much money on our own mousetraps? I think not. Racing in general has taken a pretty hard hit over the past few years, due to the economy. I see it only as a matter of growth to try to make an "established class of motorsport" more affordable. Sure, the car may not be quite right, yet. But for going on practically NOTHING, it's a downright impressive attempt. After i viewed the first thread about these cars I decided to try and find info on the Mini Indy builder and on the F-1000's, just to see what's out there. F1000's almost seem secret. Elusive information, so what's a builder to do? Think for himself. I say it's a damn good first attempt, considering what information was made to him. Sure, it's no carbon-fiber-paddle-shifting-top-notch-computer-engineered masterpiece, but it's what a guy with ambition built using a vision and goal. Not bad, not bad at all.

How about instead of flaming we try and give him a boost, saying "nice job" and recommend what he can do to improve the car? I would, but like I said, I'm not really an "open wheeler". I joined this forum because a lot can be learned from your guys' technology that can be applied to all aspects of racing. But I worry that if I ask a relatively "stupid" question will I get an answer or will I get ridiculed?

[dc]

But I worry that if I ask a relatively "stupid" question will I get an answer or will I get ridiculed?

I don't think that's a fair question, even rhetorically speaking. In 10+ years of this community, I don't think there has ever been ridicule for any question asked by anyone—new or old (except maybe for Art, but he's like the crazy uncle that only comes over on Thanksgiving and gives the kids rides on his "space ship"). I've asked plenty of stupid questions myself, which is the sole reason this community was developed in the first place. We were new to racing and we needed a place that didn't feel intimidating to ask questions in, and we take great pride in what has been built here.


This community DID offer a lot of constructive criticism that was not well received by the builder. It's a car that was not built under the FB rulebook and will have some work to make it legal for that class—not to mention legal to just be on the track at an SCCA event, period.

Respect is a 2-way street, and there have been lapses on both sides. IMO, if the builder was less abrasive and more receptive to the information being brought to him here by very experienced race car builders, and used his real name to post here, it might go a lot further in building some respect here on ApexSpeed.


I don't think that I'm the only one here who would love to see a low budget, entry-level formula car—but it has to be built properly, or it won't even get off the ground in the SCCA.



dc

[MiniFormulaIndy]

Abrasive? Yep. But here's the real problem I have with you guys: Last January I'm searching around on the internet gathering info and I come across that post on Apex, basically lauging at a car that had already been proven to be track worthy and as a matter of fact, had been racing ovals AND road courses for more than 30 years. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't make it a joke. Hell, up until last year, I'd never heard of F1000's and unless I say it 5 times to people that are around our shop, nobody else had heard of your class.

The response "more receptive to the information being brought to him here by very experienced race car builders" would have been welcomed with open arms had anyone on this forum used even the slightest bit of respect, courtesy or tact. Instead, what we got was virtually everyone on this board telling me how wrong I am. My responses are a product of your world.

Constructive criticism? Hardly. Just about everyone was too busy flexing their muscles and their wallets to humble themselves long enough to entertain the fact that the cars were in existence long before the exclusive F1000 class. All I did was pop in and make an attempt to stand up for myself and my guys and a few of the posts pissed me off.


Where I come from, if someone has respect for you, then you have respect for them. If a stranger walks into my shop and starts yelling at me and telling me how many things he doesn't like and how I've done everything wrong, then he's going to be quite unhappy with the welcoming bat, I mean Mat... You get the picture. Now remember, I didn't come into your shop (this forum) and start tearing apart you, your cars or your class. I came to stand up for myself.


My Crew chief is telling me "stop posting on that forum, those guys are *******s and you're wasting your time. We don't want to be associated with guys like that anyway". I disagree. (not sure why, just yet)

Allow me to paint a picture:
During the mid 04-07 Motocross era, we all had the latest & greatest 450 4 stroke machines. We "ran the show" at our AMA tracks. Every so often, a guy in a ratty pickup truck with an early 90's 2 stroke, obsolete rattle trap bike would show up and register to race against us. See where this is going?

Did we run over to him and say "hey I'm not getting on the track with you, that thing is unsafe" or "You can't race that here, it's not good enough" & "that's not up to our current standards". No. What we did say, is that sure is a clean old bike and hey, glad to see you made it out today and things like where ya from & how long have you been racing and most importanly Good Luck.


That is how racers treat each other. But not you guys, not here. Instead, what we got was pure crap and maybe my Crew chief is right. I just find it hard to believe I've met the only class of racers that just don't get it. I'll let the rest of the responses speak collectively as to exactly who you people are. In the meantime, I've got a body to finish. Good Luck & Stay safe fellas, stay safe.

[blackbmwk1200r]

[quote=MiniFormulaIndy;262863] "but while I was turning laps in the second hour of practice I couldn't help thinking "I can't wait until those guys get word about this". Our body & wings aren't completed yet, but that did not stop us from unloading at the track for this test. Let's just say, you've all inspired us even more."

Why do you care what people on this forum think? You have set out to build a competitive race car for 1/3 the cost of everyone else building for this class. That makes you either a revolutionary thinker (who will change everything the industry now believes about race car design and construction) or crazy and therefore unable to appreciate the real world challenges of the mission you have decided to undertake.

Revolutionary thinkers don't care what other people think. They expect disbelief and cynicism. I respectfully suggest that you stop caring about what some people on this forum think about your efforts. Just build the car and prove yourself on the track.

[MiniFormulaIndy]

Revolutionary thinkers also like to prove the naysayers wrong. But adding to that, I'm pretty sure I've never been called perfectly sane. Somewhere in between I guess.

[tjcezar]

I will say say that I've asked a lot of stupid questions on this forum and they were always answered and almostly everytime with kindness. It never ceases to amaze me how helpful everyone from this community (ApexSpeed) has been to me and I def would not have been able to get where I am today without this help. I have seen glimpses of eliteism or "look how much $ I have" but there are those in every bunch and you should just ignore them. Build your vision and take good constructive criticism to help you along the way. Use the nay sayers for motivation and good luck.

[Brands]

As Russ said you need to run the car on a raod course with a representative FB time. As we all know the only thing that matters is how fast it is on the track (assuming of course that it is safe and legal). Running without bodywork and wings is a good way to shake the car down but it's meaningless in terms of out right pace. I'm sure you plan on making the car SCCA legal and running it on a road course and I'm equally sure we will all be very interested in the results. This forum is a good place to learn, and I disagree that F1000 is a closed shop as far as build infomation is concerned. There are plenty of threads detailing car development. Similarly this class was born and nutured by the regular contributors here so I would suggest that you keep posting on the build and development of your car and resist the temptation to be baited by critical comments - it does you no favours.

[Dennis McCarthy]

Kudos, you have built a car.

However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it's not going to be competitive in F1000 as

defined by current SCCA rules regardless of whether or not you modified it to meet current safety

standards. It begets the question, what is the point your trying to make?

You can build a low cost car that can compete with a Legends car?

[Wren]

The only way you could call the scca community in general or the F1000 community specifically a bunch of elitist would be if you have never been to an scca event.

You got good advice here. You just didn't want to hear it. Your car is not ready for homologation and it is not safe. I personally have some concerns about how often you have posted about how you are not scared.

120% rule, needed now more than ever.

[ghickman]

MFI-
I know you will likely take this post wrong but none the less here it is.

If you really are serious about marketing your new offering to potential F1000 buyers you are going about it all wrong.

I suggest you go back and read older threads from the likes of Dustin Wright (Phoenix), Brandon Dixon (Citation), Wayne & Lee (Stohr), Ralph Firman (Firman), and I guess I can include myself (Edge)....and I really should include Jerry Freeman, Glen Cooper, Ben Cooper, Sean O, Sean Maisey, etc in this. You wont see a pattern of rhetoric as seen in your posts.

Please tone the rhetoric down and get your car either closer to SCCA Homologation or fully. I also suggest you keep your posts shorter in length and more to the point. Just my opinion.

Regards
GH
Edge FB#76

[R. Pare]

I don't know why I'm bothering responding - this really is a waste of my time.

From almost the very start, your attitude has been that you are going to show "us" up, that you have discovered some sort of secret combination that will allow your car to compete on equal footing with the cars already out there.

Your posts started off like this:

1 - It will compete with the Van Diemen and Stohr cars, whether you believe it or not.

Answer: Not a prayer in hell. It may be capable of going fast in a straight line, but the design leaves it way off the mark in cornering and braking capability.

2 - Here's where you can grill me on construction techniques, costs, goals, speed, safety or whatever you choose. The new car is something we're very serious about and very proud of.

Ask/Flame away.

Answer: We did, and you got all pouty about it. Sorry, but if you cannot accept constructive criticism, then don't ask.

3 - ....this is truly an entry level F1000 that looks impressive and has the power, adjustability and the ability to be easily homologated into the class and be competitive

Answer: The car WILL NOT pass homologation as the design stands in those pictures.

4 - Hey, if it's all about money and "he with the most wins", then you guys at the top of the hierarchy can stay there and enjoy the slim few that choose to make that the most important. Everyone knows that there are alot of guys with driving ability & low dollars. Don't make this sport too exclusive, you'll find yourselves a bit empty when it's all said and done.

Answer: Racing costs money, and especially racing cars that have the lap time potential that this class has. Numerous posters congratulated you on building a low cost car, if you didn't notice. What has them concerned are numerous safety and construction issues that only an amateur would make, yet you immediately blew them off as being "elitist".

5 - .....I just know there is a better way to build a mousetrap.

Answer: We ain't building mousetraps - we are building very fast race cars that can kill people if things go wrong. You are also going up against people who have 30 or 40 or even more years design and engineering experience in everything from Formula One, Indy Cars, Nascar, and airplanes on down to midgets and karts. Your design is nothing we haven't seen numerous times before.

6 - So you mean that if I spent 65k then I'm allowed in your little group? Don't be so elitist and don't feel bad because you spent too much. I did not say that my cars were better than ours, I just claim that my cars are every bit as fast

Answer: As stated before, fast in a straight line, yes, but in overall roadcourse lap times, not even close.

7 - The nose of the car, or battering ram as it was humorously called is designed to shear off, if you look at it.

Answer: That answer alone puts you shows your total lack of knowledge of safety design, never mind the rules for this class.

8 - Don't be so afraid. I detect a poor attitude on many of you, perhaps that's why your class struggles. Guess what? There is a new car in town, flame away. I will show up and I will race some of you. Have your balls on, you'll need 'em. I am not afraid.

Answer: Park your ego somewhere else - this isn't a Jackass contest.

10- - I'm not trying to argue anything except that I have a right to build, sell and race anything I see fit and can legally enter an event.

Answer: You have the right to build a car that fits the rules of the organization you want to race with. And be aware that there are also rules about trackside behavior you'll have to get used to also.

11 - Like it or not, watch your mirrors. I'll kiss tech's rear end and I'll comply.

Answer: Sorry, but ass kissing won't get this car, in it's current form, past the Topeka office. Also, homologation pertains solely with the safety items, so IF you make enough of the suggested changes to satisfy Topeka, you STILL have to satisfy all the design criteria, and are open to protest by any participant at any time.

12 - It simply seems to me that the people on this forum want to push excited, gutsy & talented people away from "their" sport.

Answer; Already answered this once - we seek out and welcome new people all the time, but reserve the right to "push away" those who display a clear lack of common sense and/or are illegal.

Personally, I'd love to see you get this car done and out there, BUT it has to at the minimum, abide by the same rules that the rest of us have to adhere to. How slow or fast it will be is irrelevant in comparison to it's safety and the attitude of the entrant.

So far, your attitude leaves a bit to be desired.

[S Lathrop]

Revolutionary thinkers also like to prove the naysayers wrong. But adding to that, I'm pretty sure I've never been called perfectly sane. Somewhere in between I guess.

What I am really interested in seeing you do is take your live rear axel car and our tires to a road course. A live rear axel will save a lot of money in the cost of building a car. I really would like to see what you can do. That would be real genius if you can match a FB.

I have done a lot of oval track work with formula cars. As such I can apperciate the challanges you face.

Give us our due in that we are restricted to 8x13 front and 10x13 rear wheels. At a place like IRP (Indianapolis 5/8th oval) we could easily match or out pace a sprint car. FCs have done that when they have raced there.

[Billy Wight]

MiniFormulaIndy-

Richard Pare's post above is pretty spot on. The criticism (well most of it anyway) toward your car given in this post and the last was constructive. Proof of this can be seen in the picture at to top of this thread; notice the excessice compliance in the rear suspension causing the laden rear tyre to go into positive camber. I believe both Dustin and Richard pointed out areas for improvement in the suspension earlier. Good luck with the car's development, and I hope to see you in a safer and GCR compliant version of the car at the track soon.

[Northwind]

MFI,

When the day comes that you get your car configured to run with us here in SCCA, I think you may be plesantly suprised that the same people that you feel are bashing you and your car would be there to help you with what ever you need. It doesn't matter if we are close rivals or not. We want to see everybody succeed. That is what I have found within the F-1000 community. Others in different classes have also made mention that they can't believe the brotherhood in our class. I for one welcome you to paddock next to me if we are running the same event and would be more then willing to help you out with what ever I can.

[coletrickle]

MFI,

When the day comes that you get your car configured to run with us here in SCCA, I think you may be plesantly suprised that the same people that you feel are bashing you and your car would be there to help you with what ever you need. It doesn't matter if we are close rivals or not. We want to see everybody succeed. That is what I have found within the F-1000 community. Others in different classes have also made mention that they can't believe the brotherhood in our class. I for one welcome you to paddock next to me if we are running the same event and would be more then willing to help you out with what ever I can.

This type of response is refreshing. Things were getting kinda thick in here!

What you said describes the type of environment that a new coming race team appreciates. I have been on the crew of new teams in new environments, and to be welcomed with a handshake is always a sigh of relief. I think that's what MFI was hoping for, but things got defensive on both ends. This thread could be more productive if both sides put down their fists and worked TOGETHER.

I think we can all agree that MFI's car is not up to "speed" for the F1000 class in question. My question is, if I were a builder and wanted to attempt one myself, what should I do to start? I see no pics anywhere of your guys' suspension, chassis, engines, whatever. Guess I'll look more. Is there a link to something? I'm just curious as to what goes into these cars and WHY it's so hard to just up and build one.

EDIT: I just found this. Some good pics in there. VERY nice stuff. But man, I could only dream of building/owning one, on my middle-class income.

http://www.firmanwestcars.com/RFR-F1000.shtml

[Rick Ross]

The F1000 class is defined in the SCCA GCR. MFI's car is not currently an F1000 car, and to describe it as such is misleading. If the car receives SCCA homolgation and is GCR compliant, then you can call it an F1000. Until that time it is a prototype tube frame, open-wheel, single seat car powered by a 1 liter bike motor.

[Wren]

I think we can all agree that MFI's car is not up to "speed" for the F1000 class in question. My question is, if I were a builder and wanted to attempt one myself, what should I do to start? I see no pics anywhere of your guys' suspension, chassis, engines, whatever. Guess I'll look more. Is there a link to something? I'm just curious as to what goes into these cars and WHY it's so hard to just up and build one.

ummmm, Doug gave us an entire subforum for FB car building. You will find plenty of pictures there.

[iamuwere]

EDIT: I just found this. Some good pics in there. VERY nice stuff. But man, I could only dream of building/owning one, on my middle-class income.

http://www.firmanwestcars.com/RFR-F1000.shtml

That is just it. FB is not a cheap class. I couldn't think of trying to own an FB.

There is talk of building an "ENTRY LEVEL" FB. There is no such thing. FB is NOT an entry level class. There is no entry level in FB. There is fast and fast.

There are many, many cheaper classes you can build in. F600 comes to mind if you are particularly interested in live axle and bike motors. That more limited technology would suit this design far, far better.

Many of the cars in FB have extensive wind tunnel and CFD time. That is a must in this class. There is no "ENTRY LEVEL" FB and there shouldn't be----these are very, very fast cars that require a very high level of handling and safety. Many think they are too fast for tube chassis anyway.

I am not flaming, I am serious. I will see this car since it is being built in my backyard so to speak so I will see the times. Let me know when it is under a minute flat at Nelson Ledges. That right rear tire in the photo above is a great concern to me since it isn't even fit with wings, body, and diffuser yet.

I would like to come see it next time you are all at Barberton Speedway if I recognize the track surface properly from the photo.

Jim

[Richard Dziak]

Ok, I was the guy who originally started the thread on MFI, and was proud to put the info on a new builder here on ApexSpeed. But what I see is a cocky guy (MFI whoever he is) who just thinks he knows it all. Here on ApexSpeed, (current F1000 owners and others) are trying to give you legitimate input and constructive criticism. The members who respond have MFI's best interest in mind. While MFI may consider the responses as negative, in time, MFI may have to settle back a little bit understand that this is a forum to help others, and each other. That's the only way I find it to be. When it comes to F1000 information, ApexSpeed is truly the best source for inquires, questions and so many other related topics and issues in refernece to open wheel race cars.


MFI, try not to get so wrapped up in the idea, that you want to prove everybody wrong. Don't under estimate the knowledge and real help that everyone wants to give you. Be constructive yourself, and ask questons. You will learn allot and I am sure that you can incorporate a lot of the ideas and wisdom found here on ApexSpeed in helping build and improve your cars. We want to see you succeed, we want to see a builder that can build a low cost car that meets the standards and specs of the SCCA, who has along history in racing.

So be positive, and don't belittle the guys that are here to provide input to you. They are genuinely trying to help.

Remember one thing:

"Attitude is like a flat tire, you won't get anywhere unless you change it".

We truly wish you the best.

[R. Pare]

My question is, if I were a builder and wanted to attempt one myself, what should I do to start?

That depends on just how versed you already are in designing and building formula cars.

If you have little to no experience, and especially if you are not an engineer, nor an accomplished driver, I'd suggest that you start off building a Formula Ford, learn the basics, then convert it to FC and continue the learning curve. THEN you can judge more correctly whether or not you have the capacity to build at the FB level.

Even then, you will want to spend a lot of time studying the fast cars to get an idea what is and what isn't important.

[blackbmwk1200r]

That depends on just how versed you already are in designing and building formula cars.

If you have little to no experience, and especially if you are not an engineer, nor an accomplished driver, I'd suggest that you start off building a Formula Ford, learn the basics, then convert it to FC and continue the learning curve. THEN you can judge more correctly whether or not you have the capacity to build at the FB level.

Even then, you will want to spend a lot of time studying the fast cars to get an idea what is and what isn't important.

Alternatively you might consider running the following on Apexspeed:

Recently established racecar builder is looking to put together a world class team of proven designers and builders to pursue development of a new class leading FB racecar. Experience with an existing FB car builder a plus. Whatever you are making now, I'll pay you more.

[Franklin Futrelle]

ill drive it when it's ready

[RussMcB]

ill drive it when it's ready

MFI, this is a good idea. Put a known good driver in your car. Franklin will surely get the most out of the car. You should take him up on it.

[coletrickle]

If you have little to no experience, and especially if you are not an engineer, nor an accomplished driver, I'd suggest that you start off building a Formula Ford, learn the basics, then convert it to FC and continue the learning curve. THEN you can judge more correctly whether or not you have the capacity to build at the FB level.
.

I really don't have much experience on the open-wheel front. I come from a long family blood line of Saturday night stock car relatives. I'd like to somehow transition into something new. Maybe the aforementioned F600 is the way to go. I'd like something I can drive as well as wrench on and not feel nervous about breaking something. I have a few questions on independent rear suspension as well, now that this thread got me thinking about the dynamic positive camber effect that you can see in the picture. How does one minimize/eliminate this? Maybe I'll post in a more relevant forum and try to start my learning process.

[S Lathrop]

I really don't have much experience on the open-wheel front. ...... I have a few questions on independent rear suspension as well, now that this thread got me thinking about the dynamic positive camber effect that you can see in the picture. How does one minimize/eliminate this? Maybe I'll post in a more relevant forum and try to start my learning process.

It may be the angle of the picture, but not only has the rear gone to positive camber in the rear (due to roll from tire deflection) but it looks like the front is jacking. The rear can be fixed with stagger but the front might need a think about geometry. I would guess that the car will mechanically end up with some push. Wings may over come that.

[coletrickle]

Ahh yes, the old "front end is jacking" issue. Let's hear what YOU think that means...

[Rennie Clayton]

Ahh yes, the old "front end is jacking" issue. Let's hear what YOU think that means...

"Jacking" is a widely accepted engineering term for vertical forces present within the suspension system; if the suspension roll center is above ground, it acts to lift that end of the car. If the roll center is below ground, it acts to lower that end of the car. The farther from the ground plane the roll center is, generally the greater the effect.

Based on the picture at the start of the thread, it appears that the aggregate ride height at the front of the car while cornering has risen compared to how the car is oriented statically, hence the "front end is jacking". As the car transfers weight while cornering, the front end is lifting. It has implications for speed of weight transfer, and is especially critical for aerodynamic performance.

Jacking geometry is similar to anti-dive and anti-squat geometry in terms of the mechanical effect, but turned sideways and causes effects during different aspects of the operating envelope of the car.


Cheers,
Rennie

[blackbmwk1200r]

used his real name to post here, it might go a lot further in building some respect here on ApexSpeed.


dc

I have question given my choice to use my favorite "go fast" toy as a user name. Will using my real name make a difference in the amount of respect I build on ApexSpeed.

Sid Smith

[RussMcB]

I have question given my choice to use my favorite "go fast" toy as a user name. Will using my real name make a difference in the amount of respect I build on ApexSpeed.

Sid Smith

Yes. That is a very respectable name you have there, Sid.

[blackbmwk1200r]

Yes. That is a very respectable name you have there, Sid.

Ah, respect; that was so easy. Thank you Russ.

Now I'm going to get busy posting to see how quickly I can lose it.

[iamuwere]

I like BMW bikes. I like the name....

Jim

[coletrickle]

"Jacking" is a widely accepted engineering term for vertical forces present within the suspension system; if the suspension roll center is above ground, it acts to lift that end of the car. If the roll center is below ground, it acts to lower that end of the car. The farther from the ground plane the roll center is, generally the greater the effect.

Based on the picture at the start of the thread, it appears that the aggregate ride height at the front of the car while cornering has risen compared to how the car is oriented statically, hence the "front end is jacking". As the car transfers weight while cornering, the front end is lifting. It has implications for speed of weight transfer, and is especially critical for aerodynamic performance.

Jacking geometry is similar to anti-dive and anti-squat geometry in terms of the mechanical effect, but turned sideways and causes effects during different aspects of the operating envelope of the car.


Cheers,
Rennie

Gotcha. Thanks, you guys are really helpful and informative, albeit a bit overwhelming for me at this point!

[R. Pare]

Hard to tell from the pics, but it certainly looks like the front geometric roll center is above ground by a fair margin.

[dc]

Will using my real name make a difference in the amount of respect I build on ApexSpeed?

Unequivocally, yes. Anonymous posts hold about as little water as you could possibly imagine on any discussion forum.

[problemchild]

Most people will ultimately judge you on what you say and how you say it.

[JRMarchand]

MF

how is the bodywork coming? Just like Mr. Futrelle, I am interested in volunteering/work behind the wheel of your racecar at my hometrack, i own a race shop 5 seconds from the paddock inside GingerMan. I can definitely work a deal where there is no charge to run the car at GingerMan and develop it whichever way you see fits. Would love to be your test driver

kind regards

Juan R Marchand
'09 SCCA FM Champion