Stohrs Swift DB4 J.R. Osborne

[Jnovak]

As usual I am mightily impressed with the work done at the Stohr shop. Keep up the good work gents.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[marshall9]

I like the "Improvements" to that DB4. We'll see if it makes it faster and more competetive against newer equipment. Does it take away from the Vintage design? Sure. I don't think the mods were made to give it an edge against a "Stock" DB4 so as to win in a vintage class though. I have seen some, actually many, F-1 cars that I thought were ugly, but they sure hauled posterior, lol. I don't like the way the front wing looks, but the other aero seems modern and sleek.

[carnut169]

You guys don't get it at all.

The car has more fins, flaps, etc than the original. This is very similiar to what some people do to street vehicles and is refered to as "rice", I suppose because it is primarly Japanese imports that get the treatment. The 1st sentence in my original post was intentionally put there to GIVE them respect, and to put the rice comment in perspective. Why is it almost being completely ignored?

I thought it would be far easier to say "rice" than I really prefer the original design and it's clean, yet beefy look. Had I know everyone would get their panties in a wad I would have said the later.


To say my opinion is stupid, shallow or an attempt to stroke my ego is completely blowing my mind. Doug... damn dude. Thought the years of service and contributions would earn me a little more than that. Can anyone of you find a single negative thing I've posted about someone in my 2800+ posts?


If I were the people at Stohr I would welcome the negative comments as they are in the business to sell cars... right? Guess all you guys saying how much you like it are in the market/ planning to buy one?

[bill gillespie]

Folks,
I guess I'm an insensitive clod, but I took no disrespect in Sean's comment......seemed descriptive to me........anyway, I don't think Stohr/ JR's purpose was to add, or detract from Brun's superb original design.....I don't think it was intended to compete against vintage, contemporary, or NOPI contests.

I believe JR would like to qualify for the runoffs, and Wayne has a number of aero ideas he needs to test for a next-gen FA car. Never intended to improve, or detract from the original..........test mule duty.

Imho,
Bill

[D.T. Benner]

[mousecatcher]

The car has more fins, flaps, etc than the original. This is very similiar to what some people do to street vehicles and is refered to as "rice", I suppose because it is primarly Japanese imports that get the treatment.

Where its application is nonfunctional and sometimes (most times?) even worse than original as far as performance goes. Looks of course are in the eye of the beholder.

The 1st sentence in my original post was intentionally put there to GIVE them respect, and to put the rice comment in perspective. Why is it almost being completely ignored?

How you can say "improved in every way" and then compare it to rice escapes me (personally). So I took it as a "with all due respect" type of preface. And by that I mean, when that expression is an empty one. I'm guessing others did as well.

Seems that rice was not what you meant at all?

[formulasuper]

To say my opinion is stupid, shallow or an attempt to stroke my ego is completely blowing my mind. Doug... damn dude. Thought the years of service and contributions would earn me a little more than that. Can anyone of you find a single negative thing I've posted about someone in my 2800+ posts?

Oh how soon they forget, from being the respected founder of the FB class way back before the class had ever been heard of, to being a low down Rotax owning karter that can't even crack a little joke without being flamed! I've heard it said that we are only as good as our last race.

[dc]

Sean, I call it like I see it. This doesn't have anything to do with your service to ApexSpeed.

If you read my comments again, I never called you stupid or shallow, but was describing the mentality of import car discussion boards—of which this is most definitely not that type of place. I have spent more than enough time on import forums to know how forum decor should NOT behave. ApexSpeed is anything but like those boards. I'd like to keep it that way, too.

Now, I think the term that you are using—"ricer"—is the thing people are taking umbrage with. It's a term that globally describes modifications made to cars for no reason, other than to make them look like race cars or show cars. Pseudo-mods or fake hot rodding, if you will. The term over time has grown to include all of the Pep Boys-built import and domestic junk boulevard cruisers flashing neon under lighting and fake chrome plastic spinning hubcaps. It's derogatory and insulting in every way (at least to me, it would be). And to many people it's even an offensive, racially charged term.

I don't think that Stohr "tacked on" some Wings West fiberglass shark fins or fake air scoops to look cool and impress their friends at the Friday night drive-in. I could see how comparing what Stohr and JR did to the Atlantic to a boy racer wannabe import owner could be inferred as a pretty hefty insult.

I'm just saying, I understand how someone could get peeved. That's just me, though.

[Jim Gustafson]

"...whatever Sean, please shut your hole..". Kids, this is not the tone one normally expects here at ApexSpeed.

Jim Gustafson

[Purple Frog]

I thought J.R. went a bit over the top with his first comeback. I didn't like the "hole" part on this forum.

And, I noticed the second part of his post:

If you don't like it fine, but don't disrespect the guys that have put hundreds of hours into their passion.

J.R.O

But, when I go back and read the February posts about this yellow car, didn't seem that the builder with a passion and 100s of hours of labor got any slack.

[Jnovak]

Definately cold out there.

Thanks ... jay

[Matthew Inge]

I thought J.R. went a bit over the top with his first comeback. I didn't like the "hole" part on this forum.

And, I noticed the second part of his post:



But, when I go back and read the February posts about this yellow car, didn't seem that the builder with a passion and 100s of hours of labor got any slack.

Frog you never cease to amaze me.

[Rennie Clayton]

It's like a train wreck, I just can't look away...

[Rick Iverson]

Folks ...I took no disrespect in Sean's comment. Bill

Ditto that.

So here's the deal, and there is no getting around it. To be considered a valued and respected player here, one needs to exercise TACT. Lest we forget the Formula Ford Underground.

Iverson

Post Scriptum - Sean has contributed as much if not more thoughtful information and help to this forum than most. I have seen his craftsmanship and would be remiss were I not to say it is in the 99th percentile. He deserves better.

[provamo]

can't we all just get along?

[WFelch]

Here is a picture of the back of the car without bodywork. I have to mention that Arnie Loyning has been a huge help in getting our program going. Not only has he provided expert help on the engine side, but he has been a wealth of information about Atlantic racing in general. Lee Williams helped us get up to speed with the DB4 gearbox and is doing a JFR Hewland for the new car.

We will post more pics as we get it back together. We have a couple of days to test at Portland on April 17-18.

[DB4 Tim]

NO NO NO...we know you have pictures already..you are just keeping us in ......

....well this is worse then a blind date...we want more.....


BTW Damn nice job.

Here is a picture of the back of the car without bodywork. I have to mention that Arnie Loyning has been a huge help in getting our program going. Not only has he provided expert help on the engine side, but he has been a wealth of information about Atlantic racing in general. Lee Williams helped us get up to speed with the DB4 gearbox and is doing a JFR Hewland for the new car.

We will post more pics as we get it back together. We have a couple of days to test at Portland on April 17-18.

[Stan Clayton]

Awesome photo, Wayne.

[PCalhoun]

Not to hi-jack a thread, but have you seen the new Formula Nippon car by Swift? This is another sweet looking new formula car and I see a few similarities to the Atlantic car being discussed here.

http://www.swiftengineering.com/motorsports.html

[mousecatcher]

Not to hi-jack a thread, but have you seen the new Formula Nippon car by Swift? This is another sweet looking new formula car and I see a few similarities to the Atlantic car being discussed here.

http://www.swiftengineering.com/motorsports.html

wow. it sure is swoopy! me likey!

600HP ... too much for me.

[DB4 Tim]

Time for more info...and pictures

[J Leonard]

The next national up here is May 9th.

[WFelch]

We will be testing Friday at Portland and trying to get more track time over the regional weekend. I will get some stuff up as soon as I can. After our initial test at Thunder Hill, we have made extensive modifications to the tunnels/floor and side pods, completly new exaust configuration,new engine harness and dash. We also added a sequential shift kit to our existing gear box, and inside front wheel covers to mention a few. We will post some pictures after this weekend.

Thanks for your interest,

The Stohr guys.

[quartzracer]

sequential shift kit Can you tell us more about that?

Eric

[DB4 Tim]

I can't speak for anyone else (however I believe it is high here) from my view I am VERY interested in this entire project.....every aspect........the gear box is very intriguing...

We will be testing Friday at Portland and trying to get more track time over the regional weekend. I will get some stuff up as soon as I can. After our initial test at Thunder Hill, we have made extensive modifications to the tunnels/floor and side pods, completely new exhaust configuration,new engine harness and dash. We also added a sequential shift kit to our existing gear box, and inside front wheel covers to mention a few. We will post some pictures after this weekend.

Thanks for your interest,

The Stohr guys.

[WRD]

sequential shift kit Can you tell us more about that?

Eric

There has been available for some time a sequential conversion kit for the Staffs box. Basically the rear cover and bearing carrier are removed and replaced with another unit. Even though the box is sequentially operated the unit is a compromise design and not a true sequential box, it still features the three rods but instead of being operated by a selector finger they are now operated with a barrel.

There were problems with them after their introduction, the operation of the rods through a barrel creates some unwanted moments in the rods and can bind them up. We have created some modifications to the unit though that control this binding and create a reliable shifting mechanism.

In some cases the dogs also have to be machined to give a bigger window for the shift, we'll see how JR gets on before doing this.

If anyone has any questions either give me a call or drop me an e-mail to lee@willrace.com

Lee

Williams Racing Developments
www.willrace.com
858 220 0927

[quartzracer]

How did the Portland testing go? Photos....

[DB4 Tim]

How did the Portland testing go? Photos....

YES photos and more about the gear box...

[bill gillespie]

I have a sequential conversion on my Ralt RT41....Lee spent quite a lot of time on it, and we have continued working on it in-house.

Call sometime for details.
Bill
770-328-8184

[WFelch]

The gearbox worked awesome! We are still sorting through teething issues and completely missed the actual test day. We ran some sessions over the regional race, but did not get as much track time as we would have liked. The car did go 146mph on the back stretch and 142 on the front (with Arnie's radar gun). The pros were 140 on the back and just for comparison, Jaremco's speed last year in his WF-1 was 147. We are happy so far. I will post a few pictures this week.

[Jon Jeffords]

Wayne, out of technical curiousity, will the final design incorporate sway bars?

[Paul LeCain]

I have a question about the bodywork on this car and the Formula Car spec for SCCA use.

Specifically, how does the upkick on the sidepods in front of the rear wheels fit under this part (9.1.1.A.1.g.2) of the FA rules?

"The maximum width of any aerodynamic device situated behind the front wheels, including the rear wing, shall not exceed 110cm (43.307 inches)."

It looks to me like that upkick is the same width as the sidepods, namely 51 inches. It is certainly an aerodynamic device.

[bill gillespie]

Crickets........Buehler?.......Buehler?........any one?.........anyone?

[WFelch]

Good question, Paul. We don't consider the body to be a device. Everything around our rear wheels is a one piece body section.

Jon, we will test some sway bars. Hard to say.

[Wright D]

I know next to nothing about the FA rules or there interpretation, so forgive my ignorance. I hope this is not a stupid question. Are the tunnels and floor governed by the same aero device width rule as listed above? I have recently picked up some FA engineering/CFD work and it would help me out a ton, thanks guys.

[Paul LeCain]

The tunnels and floor are governed by the max width of the bodywork (130 cm).

The sidepod skirt height is different depending on what the chassis is made of. Carbon chassis must have skirts 1cm above the plane of the tub. Non-carbon, may be 1 cm below that plane.

[Paul LeCain]

Crickets........Buehler?.......Buehler?........any one?.........anyone?

N'understand pas.

[Rennie Clayton]

Crickets........Buehler?.......Buehler?........any one?.........anyone?

N'understand pas.

Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

/get this man some pop culture, STAT!
//

[bill gillespie]

Righteous dude........

[Stan Clayton]

Paul, I'd translate this from crazy to English, but I'm too tired. In the meantime, don't feel too bad. I myself still lack an account with Gmail, Facebook, MySpace, iTunes, or YouTube...and I have no idea what RSS or Twitter means.