Is a lotus 51 advisable?

[wayner]

If I can make some broad asumptons that I actually find a Lotus 51 that is clean, straight, and mechanically sound and without issues, what am I getting into as far as durability, parts availability and cost to run it, and how does this compare to a newer an 1980s or 90s f1600 car in a different class?

Thanks in advance

Wayne

[Jonathan Hirst]

Wayne,

If you're buying a Lotus 51 then you will be buying it because you want a 51, not because you necessarily want to set the track on fire…

As nice as they may be in a minimalist way, they are (in original configuration) un-adjustable and fairly benign. There are better engineered, cheaper, and safer options in vintage and newer car classes.



By all means though, you wouldn’t be the first person to buy a car because you wanted that model rather than basing your decision on other factors like parts availability etc.



Anything can be (or has been) sourced and there are plenty of options out there for picking up your odds and ends needed to keep the car going.



Ottawa has a lot of FFord racers that are great folks and I imagine more than one would love to sit down with you and answer any questions you might have.



Jonathan

[Rob McClelland]

It all depends on what you want out of it and how much you are willing to pay for it. Getting parts is no trouble and the durability factor will be determined by the quality of the upkeep both before and after your acquisition.

A race ready Vintage FF can be had for about 16 to 19K U.S. You could probably pick up a mid 80's car like a Reynard for about 10 to 12K, there will be some out there cheaper but don't forget to figure on a fair amount to rebuild.

How does it compare to a car from the 80's or 90's is releatively easy to answer. The 51 essentially was an early 60's design. It's hard to make up for 20 or 30 years of development, even in a class that is tightly controlled as this. There is a growing and well run FF Championship in Ontario that readily accepts that group of cars in it's 'C' class. You will see a difference of approximately 10 seconds, more or less, per lap at Mosport between a Vintage FF and one from the 80's or 90's.

If you want to run it with other FF's from the same era then join VARAC and run with us. If you are really eager, run both with the Vintage car. It's been done before.

Rob McClelland
1969 Lotus 61FF

[LFFR]

I am assuming that you are looking at a 51 somewhere. The BIG question is does it have a Hewland or Renault gearbox/transaxle. If it has a Renault and you try to race it, you will have problems. And... Renault parts are tough to come by. If it has a Hewland, you're set. If you have to retrofit a Hewland, you're looking at about $5k, for a topflight box.

As everyone else has asked, What do you want out of the car? If you want a front running Vintage car, there are probably other choices. Not saying that a 51 or 61 can't be at the front of the pack, legally. We have a young Englishman who is doing VERY well with a Lotus 61, vith a certified legal motor, in RMVR. There's a 51 in CVAR that does very well, and a second that's in the front pack. If you want a Lotus that looks like it stepped out of Grand Prix, then a 51 is probably your car.

Parts availibility. There isn't any piece that you can't get for the 51's/61's. Some items have multiple sources. Rear uprights are even available, and reasonably priced. Take a look at the Lotus Formula Ford Register website at http://www.lffr.org There is a complete list of parts suppliers. We also have a discussion group on Yahoo, http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lffr/ if you get really interested. There are a lot of folks that are racing 51's/61's in Vintage origanizations, all over the world, subscribed.

If you have any other questions drop me an e-mail at lffr@hotmail.com

John mihalich, Jr.
Lotus Formula Ford Register
Lotus 61/FF/28- RMVR #61

[wayner]

Thanks for all the great feedback.


I roadraced motorcycles for 15 years when trying to get to the front was all that mattered.

Now I'm more interested in a piece of racing history that I can have fun with and a few good dices without braking the bank on upkeep. I plan to run maybe 3 races a year, so A class doesn't make sense for me. B class is probably most economical to get into, but I don't find the cars as interesting during that period.

So, its a lotus 51, or rental rides. Otherwise I'm looking at a different series.

The advice about the gearbox was invaluable. I'd like to hear more.
A $5k surprise wouldn't go over well on top of planned maintenance.

Thanks gain, and looking forward to hearing more.

Wayne

[Jonathan Hirst]

Wayne, you have a PM.

Jonathan

[Larry]

When I was a sophomore in high school, I lusted for a senior who was head cheerleader--but nothing ever came from it, as she was out of my class. I had the same lust for a Lotus 51 when I started racing in 1968--and it was out of my class.

Three years ago I bought a beautiful Lotus 51 and made one of my dreams come true. Yes, there are faster/better designed cars, but they weren't my dream car. I (very) reluctantly sold it before I ever had a chance to race it due to some financial needs, but the Lotus is one of my fondest memories.

...having said all that, be careful when you shop for the right car. I found one that had never used the chassis tubes to transmit coolant, and it didn't have an engine or gearbox. While the optimum 51 will use a Hewland, it will have special Lotus side plates, gearbox adapter and a long input shaft. None of these are cheap. The good news is that parts are plentiful and comparatively inexpensive. I own a parts business, and had thought about adding Lotus to my inventory, but decided that there were already plenty of suppliers at competitive prices.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Roland V. Johnson]

I drive the Lotus 51 that won the very first SCCA FF National race, and I have driven Crossles to Swifts. It was changed to a Hewland before that race. If you are going to race one don't even think of the Renault. The ratios are wrong, it is too fragile, and parts are hard to get. In comparison to other later FF's the 51 has a much more flexable chassis. In a series of corners the car seems to get confused, and the car does not like to brake and turn at the same time, among other things. It does seem to be pretty good in long high speed turns though. The car is fun to drive, and beautiful. A Titan, Merlyn, etc prepared and driven as equally as the Lotus will be faster.

[Brian]

Wayne, I also sent you a PM.

Brian

[wayner]

Thanks again everyone. Keep it coming!

So Roland, how does the cost of runnign a lotus 51 compare to runnign some of the other cars once the box has been sorted?

Any particular lotus 51 things to watch out for when shopping?
(and how easy/difficult is a hewland swap on a 51 anyway?)

[Comp89]

Wayne there is one guy in Embrum restoring a Lotus FF. However I think it is a Lotus 61. If you want to contact him to discuss restoring a Lotus, I can put you in contact with him.

[Rob McClelland]

Wayne,

You are welcome to drop by and look over my 61 anytime, I live just east of Toronto. There are very few differences between the two models.

The e-mail is listed in my profile.

Rob

[Roland V. Johnson]

The 51 cost less to run than a modern FF (if you don't hit anything) because rod ends etc is bulky and over done. All the parts are out there and don't cost as much as most modern stuff. I would look for one that already has a hewland. You can call Taylor Race about the converson parts cost. To update a 51a to a 51c is not that hard, and most that continued to race had the minor mods done, including the one that I drive.

[wayner]

The number of offers that I have had to come and visit, sit in and even drive for have been overwhelming. thanks again guys.

As far as 51 hunting, I think you guys have given me enough rope to hang myself with while knowing better. I may have to sit on the side lines for a while and think this over some more.

[wayner]

Well, I've narrowed it down to definetly a lotus 51, for the look of the cars I remember in the movie Grand Prix.


then I remembered that everyone but James Garner got killed.

...thinking

[Brian]

There is a freshly restored Lotus 51 for sale in Toronto right now, I believe. It's on the race-car.com site.



Brian

[Xpit]

Wayner
Take Rob up on his offer to see his car. Good guy, nice car !

[wayner]

Well guys, thanks again for all of the information and offers.

I've decided to head off in a different direction for a while adn will be sitting this season out.
I'll say hi if I find myself spectating at one of the events this summer.

Thanks again
Wayne