Formula Junior / Cosworth Pre-crossflow race engine wanted

[minimarcos1967]

[size=2]Does anyone have a Formula Junior (105e / 109e Ford -- not BMC) or early 1960's Cosworth 105e engine for sale? I would be interested in either a complete engine or a completely built block minus cylinder head. [/size]
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[size=2]Also would be interested in an FJ steel crankshaft if available separately. [/size][size=2]Any leads would be appreciated as well.[/size]
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[size=2]Happy New Year 2006 to all![/size]
[size=2][/size]
[size=2]Best Regards,
Andy (located in USA; shipping from UK can be arranged) [/size]

[rv greg]

Try Dave Bean Eng. dave@davebean.com. Also on race-cars.com under engines I saw one.
Greg

[minimarcos1967]

Hi Greg. Thanks for taking time to respond, I appreciate your suggestions. Have spoken with the Dave Bean team and I've written to race-cars.com to make contact with the owner of the FJ parts shown on that website, no answer so far (probably on holiday vacation).

Anyone else have any leads I might follow? Thanks in advance!

Best Regards,
Andy

[Ted and Nancy]

Try Steve Jennings 1-714-8794, he had some stuff laying around.

[minimarcos1967]

Hi Ted,

Great advice! I actually spoke with Mr. Jennings 10 days ago and he was very helpful. He can R/R my existing 1300cc all steel pre-crossflow (Farndon crankshaft ate a thrust washer and will require repair) but he did not have a FJ engine ready to sell. I'm looking to go back to 1000cc 105e power in the interest of originality.

Thanks!

Best Regards,
Andy

[preform resources]

Andy,are you sure you want a three main bearing motor? the space between the webs is great and you definately need a steel crank and they were still hard on cranks.
Dave Craddock

[minimarcos1967]

Hi Dave,

Great question! And everything you say is true, although I'm led to believe that the FoMoCo service replacement crankshaft (NOT the original 1960's item) for the 105e can be made to work if properly balanced and prepared. As you suggest, a Farndon or Kiddie crank would be preferable.

In general, I'm leaning toward the 105e 3-bearing engine in the interest of originality. That's what my little car raced with in 1962 & 1963 and this is a car with international and national period history, so originality is worth serious consideration. The current engine is a 1300cc 5-bearing (711M6015AA) all-steel lump.

Returning to a 105e 3-bearing engine would likely allow me to enter any historic race event because the car would be fully original then. However, a suitable short-stroke 5-bearing all steel long block -- a Cosworth BDJ for example -- is tempting and frankly I don't think it would give a performance advantage over a 1100cc 105e or 109e-based engine when mated to a pre-crossflow cylinder head. It would likely last as long or longer too.

Do you have any ideas or advice on this? Is it possible to build a 5-bearing steel crankshaft into a 105e or sleeved 109e block?

Any related parts for sale (or preferably a short block ready to go)?

Best regards and Happy New Year 2006!

Andy

[preform resources]

Andy, what kind of F-JR chassis do you have? I used to have a lotus 18 with the renault gearbox and drum brakes ,it was reportedly an ex- factory car as it had aluminum side panels and grp nose and tail,and the chassis was gas welded not nickel brazed,I sold it to Dick Baker of Canada years ago and he restored it.On to your question I have somewhere in my collection of stuff a couple 1300 5 main cross flow blocks they are considerably shorter than the 1600 hence the same bore as the 1600,I wonder if the siamese port head will interchange? will have to dig around and see.heres my web site and info http://preformresources.com/preform_gallery.htm
Dave Craddock

[minimarcos1967]

Dave,

That's one very interesting website you have! Whatever happened to the Invader U2 Can-Am cars?

Back on topic... I do not have a Formula Junior. My little car is a 1962 Marcos GT, which I think you might find technically interesting as it has a plywood, glued monocoque chassis (still strong after 44 years!) and originally used a Cosworth 105e engine mated to a Hewland 5-speed gearbox based on a Ford Anglia 105e gearbox casing. At 1250lbs it is heavy for a 105e Cosworth engine to lug around but was very successful in its day.

For the curious, photos may be seen at this Yahoo! Groups (Marcos Maniacs) link:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/MarcosManiacs/

If you join this Yahoo! group then you will be able to see several more photos from my file.

Best Regards,
Andy

[Jonathan Hirst]

If originality is a must then definitely go with a steel crank on the three bearing main. New or old, the replacement service cranks will not last as long as a good steel equivalent. We ran the 105/109e for the past 20 years bored out to 1500cc (7800 redline) and the crank was one thing we never had to worry about.

Otherwise, the 5 bearing block is stiffer (and the performance potential greater - read equal performance can be acheived with less strain on the engine) but in a 1300cc configuration then you probably won't be pushing the same boundaries we did as far as keeping the water out of the cylinders and the head sealed etc.

The Hewland in the Anglia box is an interesting comment. We had that same set up for our sports racer originally but a previous owner did an engine transplant to a 1800cc BMW TISA crate motor and stripped the dogs. It sat in a box as one of those projects that one day we would get too - as it stands, the box of bits was eventually sold with the car.

Luck luck with the build. It is a great little set up.

Jonathan

[minimarcos1967]

Hi Jonathan,

Thank you for your reply and comments. Is it possible to build a 5-bearing crank into a 105e or 109e block?

Regarding the Hewland, there was a neat little side-bar article on that gearbox in Autosport in 1962, which I have. Would you like a copy?

Do you know where the Hewland box you mentioned that went with the BMW 1800TiSA (Tourismo Internationale Sondern Ausfuehrung) is now?

I recently spoke with three or four first class engine builders and when the subject of head gaskets came up two of them immediately spoke highly of a gasket from a U.S. company called Cometic (www.cometic.com) and how it was proving superior. So I've order one in 82mm bore. Keeping H2O out of the bores is indeed a winning strategy.

Best Regards,
Andy

[Jonathan Hirst]

I would love scan of the Autosport article. Thank you. My email in under my profile.

The Hewland internals were sold with the car as spares (we ran the car with a bulletproof 4 speed straight cut set up).

I would love to know where the TISA lump ended up, it wasn't with the car when we bought it.

As for building the 5 bearing crank into the 3 bearing main, I would defer that answer to a more knowledgable engine builder. When we set out to assemble a full race 1498cc from scratch however, that wasn't the direction we chose.

Rather than push this thread further off topic - feel free to contact me directly via email.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Brian]

I understand that there is room in the three bearing block to install a five bearing crank but I would expect that the five bearing crank would be both weaker and more expensive in that application, since there would be two intermediate main journals doing nothing but spin in air.

For a Junior engine, you really must have some cash in hand - you must have a steel crank, steel rods, forged pistons, etc. The rod length on the original motor is very short, and you can gain by going to longer (Twin-cam length) rods with custom pistons to suit. I once used two ring pistons (one compression, one oil) that were designed for this modification. The very short stroke means that these engines rev high to make power, and can be hard to gear for and to drive if built to actual Junior spec. Think power band from 7000 to 9000 rpm...

The original crankshaft tail had 4 bolts and used a rope seal. Since you will have to get a crank made, it would be a useful upgrade to have it made with a later 6 bolt tail sized for the later rubber oil seal, and use the seal carrier from a Formula Ford engine and your existing flywheel. If you are going with 1100 cc, then you need to bore the block to 85 mm bore, which can create problems which require sleeving the bore and starting again.

Britain West at 519 756 1610 are Junior motor experts, and could supply everything that you need.

Brian

[minimarcos1967]

Hello Brian and Jonathan,

Thank you for your replies. Jonathan, I sent you an email with the Hewland gearbox information, as promised. Did you receive it?

Brian, your points regarding a five-bearing crank in a three-bearing block are well taken. I think the key to maximizing the racing performance of a small GT car like my Marcos, which is significantly heavier than a FJ at 1250 lbs, is to maximize torque and the gearbox ratios so as to ensure a sufficiently broad powerband and gear ratios that support that powerband. For example, a Cosworth A6 camshaft works pretty well in my current 1300cc engine yet a A8 camshaft does not (too peaky). But the A6 camshaft in a smaller (997cc) may not be the best in this situation. The interplay of the different parts becomes critical. As in so many other areas of preparation, it's all a matter of finding the best combination of component parts in order to reach the best overall result.

I'm happy to report that I've received a number of engine offers to choose from so far, ranging from a 105e 997cc Cosworth engine to a couple of 1100cc MAEs to a 1300cc crossflow and a 1500cc pre-crossflow.

Any other engines out there before I make a decision?

Best Regards,
Andy

[Brian]

My only thought is that Elgin may be able to grind you a cam that delivers a power band that suits the application better than the old A6 or A8 grinds. Modern developments and all that.

Brian

[minimarcos1967]

Thanks, Brian. I'll check with Elgin.

Best Regards,
Andy

[tfrasca]

cosworth mae specs

[Snakedriver]

Howdy,

I realize I may be quite late on this post, but I have a complete spare bone stock Anglia engine. I also happen to be looking for a small 5 main kent.

Maybe a deal can be made?

Leo

[James J]

I have one Leo, (Crank) 12 bolter, 5 journel Cosworth crank -10
See pics

James