Mechanical complexity....

[Churchill]

ok, I'm looking at a vintage FF... and, well, I don't know enough aboutthe different makes to really know ANYTHING.

Are any of the cars more or less complex, I like to do all the wrenching myself and I have a friend that does carburetors (thank God), I just don't want something so delicate and complicated that I can't effect most common repairs on my own or with a fellow shade-tree to lend a hand.

thanks for all the help... I'll be asking more, I'm sure.

[racer27]

I think that you'll find that there are very few repairs that can not be made by a competent shade tree mechanics on almost all CF/FF/VFF. The only thing we don't do ourselves is welding of critical components,

As for frailty, everyone probably has different opinions and I'm sure they'll chime in.

[JHaydon]

I think that most vintage FF's (and most CFF's) are pretty straightforward and uncomplicated in design.

You'll always have the those "how the heck do they expect me to be able to install that part with this other part in the way" tight spots, but complexity should be pretty rare and basically confined to the engine and gearbox. Outboard suspension, two wheel drive, space-frame chassis, brake parts sourced from road cars...

The more common concern with vintage anything is the importance of being able to find parts or information. That ultra-rare Spanish job will certainly be admired and envied... IF you manage to track down the last upright in existence so you can finally take it out of the garage!

Some of the old manufacturers are still in business, and willing to support their old cars by making replacement parts (Titan comes to mind). Barring that, try to go with a chassis that's abundant in vintage racing. That Yugoslavian design that they only made three examples of in 1968 may have an interesting history (chassis #1: crashed by the builder in its first outing, chassis #2: sold to the son of the college chum of the Prince of Siam and now for sale, chassis #3: burned with the factory in 1969), but you're much more likely to find setup information for a Lola or a Merlyn.

[bob darcey]

In most respects, all the vintage FF's are basic and pretty simple cars to work on. You'll see cars that appear complex only because they have a lot of stuff on them, often in the least optimal places. Other cars are "tidy", because the owner/builder has done a neat job of locating and routing things. Some makes use Triumph/Spitfire front uprights, etc. and that can make life a bit easier. Merlyn owners still can get new factory parts. With a few really rare exceptions, each make has sort of a 'support network' of people that know where to source various parts, or have parts, etc. Good luck.

[rickjohnson356]

Welcome to you and good luck in your search. You have already started in the right direction... this board can provide solid advice most of the time. Go to a couple of events, both regionals and vintage, check out the cars and ask questions! Most of us are proud of our cars and are eager to get someone new to join the group.

For Vintage cars, a couple of good mfg have been mentioned (Titan, Merlyn). You should also look at early Lola (200,202,204). Check out Murray's car: pics on this board.

Don't forget my favorite, Crossle. You can still get NEW parts and there are lots of the cars around. The early ones (16,20,25) are Vintage and the later ones (32,35,40,45) are 'Club' fords. Easy to get setup info, did I mention PARTS. They also seem to hold their value well.

For your first car you may want to avoid FB with their more exotic engines and prices.

Welcome!

[Larry]

Look at the cars for sale, and take a very close look at Murray Chalmer's Lola T-200! It is a beautiful car (from the photos I've seen), and his asking price is quite reasonable!

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Churchill]

I've already seen murray's car, and if it weren't for the fact that the paint is, ah, how do you say, not to my liking.... I would be en-route.... well, ok, maybe not, BUT... still!

luckily my brother is has a "racecars and restorations" shop... so paint is mostly just time, not too much money.

what are the parts sources for an old Lola... and does ANYONE know where to find parts for a March 19F (don't know why that car has my interest peaked).

[flat broke]

I think I am replying to all three of your threads at one time. I am new to FF and to vintage racing as of last season. Some of following has been stated in previous responses, sorry for the repetition.
1)Get a FF, they are a blast and the learning curve is steep enough. You hinted at a FB/F2 car. That is fine as a long term goal, but just not worth the added expense at this early stage. I have raced my FF with a FB driver who was in way over his head. I was having more fun.
2)Buy the best prepared car you can find. One that is set up right and known to be quick. If you buy it locally the previous owner may even offer to help you with setup for your first couple of outings. That help will be worth a premium.
3) Try to avoid bying a "project" like I did! There have been a few Vintage cars for sale recently (Larry mentioned Murry's Lola, there was a race ready Merlyn on Ebay and a Crossle) that you could buy for less than the rebuild costs. I understand that you are able and you have friends/relatives who can help, but if you buy a "bargain" Vintage FF that needs "sorting" you will likely spend alot more cashby the time you are finished. Granted, you will know the car better, but if you do not currently have the contacts or specific expertise then it may take a long time to get it right.
4) Make sure you fit the car. This is should be #1 if you are set on a Vintage FF. You would not be the first guy to buy a car he could not drive comfortably. Beg a "sit" in as many cars as you can (with ALL the bodywork on).
5) I will repeat the advice to buy a marque that is popular and well supported. I bought a Merlyn. Parts are a phone call away and there is a body of knowledge about the cars that I can draw upon. I am not familiar with the March you describe (there is a VERY quick and beautifully prepared 709 that runs up here in both the Vintage and the regional f1600 series) but they have not got the same depth of support. You are new to all of this (by your own admission) so make it easy on yourself.
6) The later FF cars are an evoulution of the formula (not wings and slicks cars as you seem to indicate). Check out the Club FF (approx. 73-84) cars racing in your area. Even better value in a buying well prepared car from this era and the local grids may be bigger in this class.

Tony

[Churchill]

thanks man, i really want tto do the vintage thing, for a lot of reasons, but that's not something I can compromise, and I don't want to deal with SCCA..... ever.

the car will likely see some open track time at HPT, MAM, and all of its racing at Road America... .because I can't afford to go farther, just from a time standpoint.

The LWB lola does seem a great value, especially if well sorted, and the parts availability is good. the rotors worries me a bit as I suspect that short of the pads and tires, they get replaced most often.

I really want a RELIABLE car, most of all... and that's why the FF cars are, in reality, where I'll be starting. well, thatt and I've never driven open-wheel...

[LolaT440]

Murray's Lola T200 is a deal. You are passing on it because of the paint? It is a fresh car with fresh paint. There is nothing better to paint over than good paint. You are talking a quart of urethane paint and a quart of sealer. Maybe $150.00 in materials. Sand it with 4 sheets of Wetsand paper, $4.00. And spray it in your garage, free. Time, a weekend, tops.

[Larry]

Choice 1. Buy a fully-prepared car from a known entity at a very good price. Paint it.

Choice 2. Keep looking and end up buying something that hasn't been run in an age. It's condition is unknown, and the engine (the single most costly component) is unknown...but it has nice, sexy paint.

What do do, what to do...

If I could afford it, and the car was on my coast, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat!

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Churchill]

ok..... I'm over the paint thing... my brother has a body shop, paint is a non-issue... I was mostly kidding, sorry for the confusion.

Murray's car is at the top of my list as soon as I can figure out what it costs to "build" rotors for it....

[Jonathan Hirst]

Rotors are not a high wear item, and you needn't be concerned that they need replacement anywhere near the frequency that tires or brake pads do.

Maybe in a sedan but not in a vintage formula ford! It certainly shouldn't be considered as a potential show stopper when buying a vintage ford.

Buying a car that is as well known and as fully sorted as Murrays Lola or the March is the closest thing to piece of mind anyone could have when buying a race car.

jon

[bob darcey]

I have two friends that had new, two-piece rotors made for their Lola's. Both paid around $1200. After the initial expense for the top hats and discs, the discs can be replaced at (I assume) a much lower cost. By the way, I have two sets of spare Lola rotors, both in excellent condition. One set is cross-drilled; I might be willing to sell that set.

As far as longevity, my car is still on the rotors that came with it 13 years ago. They are getting a bit thin, but nonetheless work just fine.

[Churchill]

memo to self: do not buy stock in FF rotor mfgs....

[JHaydon]

Right: buy stock in the machine shops that do the conversions to more modern rotors...