Titan Mk5 radiator, oil tank, frame

[Dave Harmison]

I am putting a Titan Mk5 back together. I need a drawing or part for the radiator and oil tank. Also, is there an approved way to check the upper frame rails for soundness seeing as how they carried coolant for years? They have some scale, but I'm not sure if they're bad or just ugly. Thanks for any help. BTW, I'm in southeast Michigan if anybody has a Mk5 or 6 I could visit.

[bob scheib]

Dave,
Contact Andy Antipas [Titan Registry] - neat guy and has all info/parts for these cars. Frame tubes - the only way to seriously test these is to strip entire frame to bare metal, pressurise fluid carrying tubes with air and use soapy water to detect leaks : recommend doing a leak-down test on each tube as well. The brazed joints can be sourse of maddening leaks too. We are building up a Mk6 right now - our 6th!! - so have lot's of experience with leaks!!

[JAC]

I have run aluminum tubes inside my bodywork on my merlyn for water tubes. I used the pre bent silicone hoses for the angles. It works great and you can not see them.

[Todd TCE]

Bobs comments are sound on checking for leaks but will not tell you the condition of the tubes. We'll tell you; rusted!

Seriously, if you can find a way, any way, please route new ones in alum outside the bodywork. As for the frame, the only way I can think of is to have it really stripped and sonic tested. Maybe drill some holes to measure? But size alone may not show the deep rooted problem of the rust. IMHO, 30 year old cars just don't need water in them anymore....

Other ideas?

[JAC]

One other thing. These old FF chassis are were not built with "nascar" tubing. They are pretty small and thin to begin with. So any amount of rust/scaling probably compromises what little strength/safety there is.

[bob scheib]

Todd's absolutely correct - locating leaks in a tube-frame will NOT reveal the actual condition of the tubes; I'd seriously recommend replacing the water carrying tubes on any "vintage" car for safety sake. Adding by-pass water tubes may solve the leak situation, but doesn't address the structural integrity [or lack of!] of the original frame tubes. We are replacing said tubes on our current "build-up" MK6 - this is not a "big deal" for an experienced race fab shop.

[Dave Harmison]

Thanks for the feed-back. I was definitely going to run seperate water tubes anyway. I'd like to replace the original tubes but with a CFF, CFC and too much work where I make a living, I don't see doing it myself. Are there easy short-cuts to replacing a major tube? I've spliced in sections on my other cars after crash damage but it looks like you'd have to totally disassemble the frame and put it on a surface plate.

[brad balles]

sleve it!!! open up the forward ends..find tubing that will fit into the old tube and slam it to the old tube..it works..then run outside tubes below the body but not under the car..this will keep the heat outside the cr and if you get hit the hot fluids will not spray all over your legs and upper body...ps I just paid 7,000 to have the tubes replaced on by f/b BT-29..stunned!!!!!

[Dave Harmison]

That's exactly what I want to do but I thought everybody would say that was hokey! What I am thinking is run some sort of "dingle-berry" type hone up the existing tube to remove any loose scale and slide a tight fitting tube up the existing cleaned tube. Then use a spot weld remover drill (3/8" hole saw) to cut through the old outer tube and rosette weld the new and old tube together at say 8" intervals. File smooth and paint. External water tubes is a given. Comments? BTW: Thanks to Andy Antipas who got back to me and is looking for parts.

[JAC]

Fix it once, fix it right. Replace the weakened, rusted tube. While you are at it check for cracks on other areas.

How much less time will it really be to make up a sleeve? If there is the slightest kink that tube will jamb up. If the tube is weak from rust a sleeve will not do anything to increase the integrity to the chassis.

I'd be pissed if I bought the car and found some mickey mouse repair like that.

[Brian]

Remember that sleeving a tube will leave every tube or fitting that is jointed to that tube attached to the still weak (and possibly weaker) original tube. the point isn't to make a single tube strong, it's to make the chassis strong, and sleeving the tube doesn't do that. It's a bodge repair.

Brian