Lucas Starter Motor

[Hawke]

I have just replaced the pinion drive gear. It looked like it had demolished itself into the ring gear under heavy brakeing. I did wonder about that noise at the time.

The car was on a chassis dyno the other day, and at high revs under load, the new drive gear just vibrates out and into the ring gear and makes a lot of sparks.

I had strenghted up the return spring before hand, and polished up the bendix (helix) to make all slide better, but still have the problem.

Any suggestions other than giving it the float test?

[kea]

There are two things that can be done.
One, balance your flywheel, and clutch assembly, which will solve the problem (it's not correct now). If you are short of time, put grease inside the Lucas bendix, on the hub the gear slides on. This will help dampen the vibrations from the out of balance clutch and keep the gear from vibrating into the ring gear.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff,Inc.

[Roland Johnson]

The 1600 engine produces some severe vibrations, no matter how well it is balanced. That causes the teeth to vibrate engaged. In the very old days there was a device called the starter saver. It was a latch/spring blade device that went on a starter bolt to help keep the teeth apart. It helped, but did not cure the problem. The only real solution is to install a modern gear reduction starter.

[Bill Kincaid]

The owner's manual for my Gurney Eagle actually recommends taping the pinion back before going out on the track! (And when I bought the car it not only still had a Lucas starter but also came with three spares!) Really, do yourself a big favor and get a modern starter.

[Larry Best]

My friend's Titan MK6C with the stock Lucas starter suffers the same issue where the pinion vibrates inward and gets machined to a nub by the flywheel on a regular basis. Continuing to replace the pinion is obviously not the answer. Assuming the balance is as good as it's going to get, and the mesh is adjusted by elongating one of the mounting bolt pads, a mechanical means of keeping the pinion out of the flywheel is needed.

I recall the "starter saver" which was made out of a piece of flat stock and had some kind of return spring to hold the pinion captive when not engaged. Does anyone know where to get one, or the specs to make one? I also recall a simpler set-up that involved installing a fairly long, but weak compression spring on the starter shaft (just larger than than the shaft diameter). That spring just kept the pinion pushed back where it belongs, except when energized/engaged. The spring was fairly weak and the action of the pinion engaging was not impacted. Anyone remember that - or know what part it might be in the Ace Hardware bin?

I know the correct answer is to install a real starter - but the config of the frame and shifter makes that pretty tough. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Larry Best

[Hawke]

Larry,

Try the Honda Civic Starter. You wont be disappointed. Its smaller than the Lucas, and it is better. For example, it works every time.

Not only is the Lucas a pain with its pinions falling out, it cant turn over a hot motor, and often has a smoke leakage.

Honda starters have very good smoke sealing, and never leak.

[kea]

Larry,
Do not assume that the clutch/flywheel balance is as good as it's going to get. As I said before, that is where the problem lays, get them properly balanced as see the difference ( the motor will like it better also). The starter savers were created before people found the real problem.
Keith

[Larry Best]

Hi Keith and Hawke,

Thanks for the updates. It sounds like the best course of action is to get the balance verified and corrected, followed by installing one of the more modern starters. In FF/CFF, the last thing we should be worrying about is the starter motor - in terms of being low-tech, should work all the time.

Thanks much, this is a great Forum!

Larry Best

[Scotty]

Larry,

Try the Honda Civic Starter. You wont be disappointed. Its smaller than the Lucas, and it is better. For example, it works every time.

Hi Hawke!

I too have a Lucas, and would really like to replace it, but have run into the same problem, I.E. Shifter linkage in the way.
I'm very interested in what you said, concerning the Honda Civic starter. I took my starter to a couple shops, but they're having a difficult time matching one up.
Do you know what model Civic, the starter you're referring to came off of?

Thank You!

[Hawke]

All the details are in here:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...=honda+starter

To clear the shift shaft, I only had to slighly grind one of the lugs of the starter. Still works like a dream after 2 years.

[Scotty]

Thanks Hawke!

2 years without changing out a starter.........
That'll be a new experience for Lucas owners.

[Hawke]

And that includes a con rod hitting the starter the meeting after I fitted it, and last meeting, a ripple strip hitting it and bending the adapter. The bent adapter didnt do the ring gear any favours, as the starter was working about 5 degrees offset.

I havnt had any vibration failure, and have not made any internal mods.

[Larry Best]

Hi Hawke,

Thanks for the clear explanation of how to go about that starter mod. I may just take this on for my Dulon MP19 that I am in the process of rebuilding. The dimensions for the starter adapter plate look like they would make a good water jet project for the local FSAE team that has that capability. I am using a new Titan Hewland adapter plate, so this should be pretty straight forward.

Thanks again,

Larry Best

[Hawke]

I just cobbled an adapter plate out of 3 pieces of steel lying around the workshop. Looks like something the cat dragged in. I have been meaning to get a new one cut by a professional.

When starting, it flexes and bends. However, I think it must assist the vibration, as the starter just keeps on going.

[Scotty]

Had my Mechanic draw up the adapter in CAD, and cut it out on his plasma cutter.
Works like a charm!

Thanks for the info.

NO MORE LUCAS!!!!!