Lotus 61 new kid on block

Ok ..I finally have time after the delivery of the Lotus 61 and I have decided to begin looking at the small stuff as well as the big stuff that looks "wrong" and trying to fix it before taking the car for a shakedown. I have not found a manual yet..that will give me torque specs etcc.so I am applying some common sense (always dangerous when dealing with some British stuff...and I am English so I know what I am talking about..) and hope to be able to get some good advice from this forum. ...So here goes.
1) The driveshafts on the car are too short. Yes I know that the car drove for two dozen years with the wrong drive shafts...but having no less than 7 stacked washers between each of the bolts, the flexible dough nuts and the gearbox drives just rubs me the wrong way. Am I nuts???I have looked on Lee Chapman Racing's site and found the "right' drives 12.75" that will put me in the right range. Those and a set of axel savers are planned for installation. (Is there another source of half shafts that I should be looking at? Because they are not cheap..)
2) Whats the best way of getting started to take these drives off..take the wheel off, work your way from the upright inwards? (sorry pretty basic stuff I know..) Does that mean that the entire assembly, hub, ujoints, half shaft has to be removed as a piece and then pressed apart?)
3) As I have the assembly apart should I replace the Ujoints and the rubber doughnuts?
they look "ok" as in the rubber does not look perished..but what is a good rule of thumb?
4) The left rear upright was damaged and welded up. The damage occurred when the car was a Russell School car ..(I have been told) and it has been fine since then. I have been told..no matter what just replace it..even if you do have it crack tested and it passes. I have looked at Dave Bean's site and seen them..I can buy one but am I being paranoid?
(Again..I understand safer is smarter in the long run and no one will be held accountable if they say keep it...and it sheers on me when I go round my first corner.)
All advice appreciated, all opinions welcome. I hope the forum will not get too bored with my torrent of questions.
Cheers,
JP

Definitely would do the new halfshafts and donuts. The universal joints are cheap and if you are tearing everything else apart might as well replace them as well. The job is pretty easy, just disassemble from the car centre line out. While you have the halfshafts removed I would disassembe the uprights and have the outboard drive shaft cracked checked. Might as well get you know the car now rather than when something breaks and causes more replacement parts. I'd probably stump up for a new carrier housing as well, if the repair was done properly it would last for years but these items are available and it takes the uncertainty out of the equation.

If you need any help with pictures or other suppliers drop me a line. My e-mail address is in the profile.

Good luck with the project. :greenflag:

Rob McClelland
1969 Lotus 61

Hello and Welcome JP,
Great advice from Rob, you don't want anything letting go at the back at speed. Also keep in mind that the "savers" will act as shims on both sides of the doughnut. Possibly not enough to make up for your short shafts, but significant all the same. I have a set on the shelf so I can check the thickness for you.

BTW if you let me know what they are going to charge you for the "savers" I will give you a fair price on the ones I have. They are unused and I now have later car that does not require them.

Tony

With your rear end how have the rod ends been adjusted on the lower wishbone and the top link? If you have 7 washers I estimate this to be 11.2 mm offest (7/16) . Couple of thoughts. On my 69 I wanted to push the rear track out as much as I could. By fitting the keepers I think you gain approx 5mm (2 lots of 2.5mm approx). The Donuts are not the same side for side. If you look at them you will see the sleeves that the bolts fit through are extended on one side. you may find that if you remove and turn the donut around so you maximise the offset in the tubes then you will pick up possibly another 6mm. There is offset you need.

The mag uprights on two of my cars have been welded. So far no problems. I have had one weld fail but that was only when I spun and got clipped in the rear wheel. the wled broke. It saved a lot of suspensin and chassis damage. It has been rewelded and I happily race on it.

Marty

Thanks for all of the feedback! All good stuff. Let me see if I can return my axel savers to Pegasus...I seem to remember they had a pretty good return policy. They charged me about 250 bucks for the set. Let me know how much the surplus set are..Finally I will remove the 12 inch driveshafts..and see if anyone needs them on the site or if they go into the ever increasing pile of potential e-bay sale items. (Currently doing a big clear out of parts ..mostly prewar morgan/brit stuff so that I can subsidize Lotus parts purchases.)


thanks again everyone...

Cheers,
Julien

Julien,

I don't know if you found Keith Franck's photos of his donut failure, but he did well with his use of the donut savers installed directly into the stub shafts and half shafts. They saved the back half of his car and kept him off the wall.

I'm due to rebuild my Elan's suspension front and rear, with dampers springs and bushings. I will go to these if I keep the donuts.

Regards,
Dan

I'm with Dan, I incorrectly called the donut saver "keepers". I have seen donuts fail on other cars. some got away with no damage, others the drive shaft flung around like a wrecking ball smashing suspension and chasis. The first thing I did on my rebuild when I got the 69 was fitted the donut savers. I have peace of mind to drop the clutch at 5200 revs (we do standing starts). On the scheme of things they are real cheap insurance.

Marty

JP,

If you're going to buy a new set of drivesahfts I would recommend that you go to Taylor and have them make a set up using new their heavy duty billet components. It's not going to be cheap, I think it was almost $1300 for the pair for my Lotus 61. But after two failures (both in the Bitch at Hallett), the collateral damage costs far exceeded the cost for the new drive shafts. Consider their Donut centering devices for the HD driveshafts. Much stouter than the fabricated metal ones. Only downside is that you will have to go with Taylor's billet stub axles also.

Also when you are getting ready to install the "new" donuts, do a close inspection on the formed mteal plates that make up the mounting hole. We have found these to be far from level and parallel, side to side. We started to "face" these surfaces in a mill so that the bolts have a level surface to clamp to. Otherwise, it is our opinion that, the donut rocks causing fatigue failure in the bolts.

There's lots of ways to get the donuts & drive shafts out. Typically, I'll unbolt the donut from the Hewland stub. With a little bit of droop in the suspension, you can rotate the shaft & donut out of the stub. Then pop the circlips in the universal out and tap out the universal cups.

The Universals are Hardy Spice 54X. These are available from any NAPA. I'd replace the donut also.

The Lotus uprights are available and quite reasonably priced, through Lee Chapman. If you're worried, it will buy you piece of mind. Sometimes you can get the upright with bearings and spacer already installed. Get it that way if you can.

May I recommend the Lotus Formula Ford Register's discuaaion group on Yahoo:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lffr/ You get information from Lotus FF owners worldwide. Give me an e-mail and I'll send you an invite.

John Mihalich, Jr.
Lotus formula Ford Register

Hi
I have the same issue with my driveshafts on the 61 I'm restoring. i will buy savers from JP racing at Silverstone and then add some shims the gap is aprox 8mm without the savers.
My car is finally back o its wheels
www.hhtech.se

Henrik

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RUBBER-DONUT...item43ad0ef8fd

Sorry if wrong BUT know nothing on topic

Stick with the donut savers. I have them on my car and they work. Had another driver tell me I had a "wobbly" half shaft and found a broken bolt. The donut saver worked and prevented further stress on the remaining two bolts. I replaced all three and was on my way again.

By the way, I've had success with a local driveline shop making up new half shafts for me. If yours are truly the wrong size, you might check to see about getting them resized locally.

Jim

Quote: "1) The driveshafts on the car are too short. Yes I know that the car drove for two dozen years with the wrong drive shafts...but having no less than 7 stacked washers between each of the bolts, the flexible dough nuts and the gearbox drives just rubs me the wrong way. Am I nuts???I have looked on Lee Chapman Racing's site and found the "right' drives 12.75" that will put me in the right range. Those and a set of axel savers are planned for installation. (Is there another source of half shafts that I should be looking at? Because they are not cheap..) "

I think Chapman's prices are well within range. I just made a pair for a 23B and they were much more than that. Just the weld stars were $275 each...the u-joint saddles were around $60 each and the 4130 tube around $50. With the machining involved and plating they were around $1500. They did come in at 8oz less each than the old ones though :)
Like Jim said you may be able to have yours lengthened by a competent driveline shop in your area as well. It's nice to have a couple of 'desperate spares' on hand though.