E-Mail from Prill re: HST and "Green-2-Checker"

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Originally Posted by EYERACE

So some idiot can complete a Skippy school (or insert others here) and be granted an SCCA License as entry to the top tier of SCCA Club Racing and given the chance to prove they have no real experience while taking others out? Really?

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The idiot is going to cause trouble because he is an idiot, not because of where he got his racing license. In my limited reference, many of the newbies from the pro driving schools have a much higher level of competency than many long time SCCA racers. IMO, the biggest problem is too many "poor drivers" racing cars that are beyond their capabilities ...... arrogance and ignorance ...... which again, has no fix.

If you read through this thread, it is like any political situation. Everyone has a different opinion on the causes, and different opinion on how to fix it. Which means it won't get fixed. We just need to deal with it the best we can.

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Originally Posted by wake74

Is it a VIR decision or a sanctioning body decision in terms of handling FCY for vehicles off track?

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Yes.;)

Some tracks are firm about it, and so are some organizations. Others are more old-school and will do hot-pulls or even just a standing local yellow depending on where the car is sitting.

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Originally Posted by EYERACE

Rick and FV mentioned something that should be reinstated........tiered Licensing.

The biggest complement I've ever received many years ago is when I had merely a Competition License (not yet National) and I was sitting in my Crossle 32F on the grid waiting to go out at Moroso and Reggie Smith in the next car turned to me from his car and said, "You, I can trust."

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Amen to that.

One of my proudest moments when I was just starting my racing (already 10 years ago!), was talking to a very experience driver in my class after a race where we had come very close to tire to tire contact in turn 2. I asked him if my driving was alright and he said:

"Alan, you can drive that close to me any time. I trust you."

And to the earlier point about speed differentials and slow drivers in fast cars, we had one guy who was coming out in his F1000 in Formula Libre...

...parking it in the corners, and blasting away on the straights.

"...parking it in the corners, and blasting away on the straights."

When I finished my home built DSR I was having a wonderful time driving but at the time, my motto was "I never met a corner I wouldn't stop for". One day I let my friend Steve drive the car and he promptly was 7 sec. per lap faster than I was. I then decided to transition to being a car owner, engineer and mechanic. Actually turned out to be just as much fun as driving.
M

I think that the ship has long since sailed on the National license topic. And besides which, it didn't even mean a damn thing before it was dropped, because the minimums to keep such a license were so weak that there were many drivers merely going through the motions and far worse with less safety, awareness, and competence than the bulk of the Regional driver field.

But I think if we were to actually tighten up the 115% rule - to a tighter number, WITHIN CLASS (not group), and actually enforce it, then we have a chance to actually achieve that goal, that both Regional fields/racing would improve and the quality of driving at Majors/ST has a chance to improve.

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

But I think if we were to actually tighten up the 115% rule - to a tighter number, WITHIN CLASS (not group), and actually enforce it, then we have a chance to actually achieve that goal, that both Regional fields/racing would improve and the quality of driving at Majors/ST has a chance to improve.

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Doubt that'll happen. As I said before it's money. And Majors is where the racing is. Regionals very hit and miss for us (mostly end of season).

It keeps being suggested that slower drivers are the problem. I have yet to see any stats on that and the account of VIR seems to be front runners taking each other out.

I think speed differential between classes (not within classes) and the size of a multi-class group are factors. But again, we'd need stats.

We need more data.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

...It keeps being suggested that slower drivers are the problem. I have yet to see any stats on that and the account of VIR seems to be front runners taking each other out.

I think speed differential between classes (not within classes) and the size of a multi-class group are factors. But again, we'd need stats.

We need more data.

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IMO, (without any data to support my position) it's likely drivers involved in incidents would be the fast cars with newish drivers who haven't yet learned the downsides of overly aggressive, or otherwise careless, driving. Most slower drivers are, if anything, overly cautious, so other than being in the way, they don't usually cause incidents, especially in the first few laps.

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Originally Posted by problemchild

I am a realist and a problem solver. I have proposed many solutions to many problems over the years. I spend hours and hours finding solutions to problems, but the current SCCA is 3 decades past having any chance of solving it's problems. Complete reform is required. But the people in power love their power (much like Washington politicians) so will never bring the reform we need. Inconsistent and random officiating is probably the biggest problem I have right now from my business perspective, so I have thought a lot about it over the past few years. Simply put, if I am taking my customers to events like VIR, I won't be in business very long. I would love for you all to "fix" this, but I am not holding my breath that that will ever happen.

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Greg, I am greatly offended by your post. How dare you single out politicians only in Washington? ;)

best,
bt

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Originally Posted by problemchild

The idiot is going to cause trouble because he is an idiot, not because of where he got his racing license. In my limited reference, many of the newbies from the pro driving schools have a much higher level of competency than many long time SCCA racers. IMO, the biggest problem is too many "poor drivers" racing cars that are beyond their capabilities ...... arrogance and ignorance ...... which again, has no fix.

If you read through this thread, it is like any political situation. Everyone has a different opinion on the causes, and different opinion on how to fix it. Which means it won't get fixed. We just need to deal with it the best we can.

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Start here laying down the law. Needs a strong speaker. Along the lines of ........listen here you clowns, FCY's suck for everyone here today. Show some respect for others time and money. Go on track. Enjoy racing. Respect others. Keep it green. If a big move is not on bail out. Give it another go later. How hard can that be?

Whether it is organizers, officials, SCCA staff, or drivers, there is a high level of "arrognorance" involved that goes far beyond drivers meetings. FWIW, SCCA is much less receptive to driver input, and vice versa, than at CASC events.

The only thing that will effect change, is if people stop coming to the worst events. Race organizers and SCCA staff make the most important decisions based on entry fee income. Any promoter does. But in this catch-22 case, that will play into the SCCA BODs agenda to kill OW classes.

I really don't see any evidence to prove driving is worse now then it was 5-10-15+ years ago. It may feel like it, but I don't see the proof that it is. In years past corner workers and safety we more likely to respond and clear an incident without stopping a session, meaning most of the incidents went unnoticed. Also, I suspect there is less animosity towards drivers when it's someone in your own class - in other words, when two cars in same class cause an incident that's more acceptable then when it's different classes. With the current grouping mixes it's more likely to be cars from different classes causing the incidents now.

Overall I think the letter from Eric missed the mark by putting so much of the blame on the drivers. Yes there are some stupid things that happen, but there have always been stupid things that happen. The real problem is the migration to the large super tour events that are now routinely pulling in 300+ entries, all with a large mix of classes trying to run them in no more then 8 race groups.

As an example, the large open wheel class at VIR had 63 entries at a track with a group average lap time of roughly 1:50. That means on average the spacing between cars is no more then 1.7 seconds. With 6 different classes and each class having their own way of generating the lap time - How can that possibly work?? It doesn't unless everyone agreed to drive at 8/10. But that's not what we do this for.

The only solution that is going to solve this problem is we're going to have to accept less track time for higher quality track time and create more run groups. Or entries will have to start being capped. We can discuss driver behavior for the next 10 years but it's not going to fix the problem of too large of a number of different types of cars on the track at the same time.

We all used to be happy with the standard 2 day race format of a 20 minute practice, 25 minute qualifying on Saturday, and a single race on Sunday. Go back to single race weekends, have less classes per group, and up the quality of the weekend. Keep the 3 day super tour weekends 3 days, but stop trying to fit in 5-6 sessions.

Fabulous post, Mike.

I totally understand the draw of a double Major. But I also think that draw held a lot more attraction when one had to finish in the top four (or six in Vee and “Ford”) in divisional points back in the day. The concept of saving an entire weekend trip to potentially earn twice as many points in a single weekend was large, and budget-practical.

But I can see the draw today, too, in times of greater expense. There can be problems in running less races to go to the Runoffs, though... less races = more pressure to finish = fewer variables learned by running on more tracks = less overall experience = more mistakes.

So either one accepts more cars on track and the resulting higher odds of incidents, or going to more races and spending a lot more in travel. When factoring in that more cars can equate to more crash repairs, the math gets convoluted in a hurry. And there’s no single or easy answer(s).

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Originally Posted by Speed Sport Engineering

The only solution that is going to solve this problem is we're going to have to accept less track time for higher quality track time and create more run groups. Or entries will have to start being capped. We can discuss driver behavior for the next 10 years but it's not going to fix the problem of too large of a number of different types of cars on the track at the same time.

We all used to be happy with the standard 2 day race format of a 20 minute practice, 25 minute qualifying on Saturday, and a single race on Sunday. Go back to single race weekends, have less classes per group, and up the quality of the weekend. Keep the 3 day super tour weekends 3 days, but stop trying to fit in 5-6 sessions.

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Not sure if the same format is used everywhere, but 1 place to gain time is the warmup sessions on Sunday morning. The only people I know that ever run those are testing repairs, etc. That can usually be handled with a hardship lap between sessions.

I do not think the single race weekend is 'sellable'.

They could reduce practice and qualifying. Most people run the pre-event practice day (or half day).

I'm looking at a regional schedule at Buttonwillow 6/4 and there is NO practice. Just Qual and Race each day. The schedule is reduced (starts at 6:30am and is done at 1pm) because of heat. Basically 90 minutes on track for the weekend.

At our February SuperTour we had cars out the first lap of both races. Only local yellows and once they were out of harms way, no local yellows. Cars sat on the hook for the entire race. 2 points here: (1) This causes delays in starting the next sessions. Knowing our group screwed up, race control could end our race a few minutes early. Display a board at S/F "Race reduced 5 min" to help keep the day on schedule. (2) Both races the incidents involved the most experienced drivers.

I really think the solution is splitting groups, BUT I have to assume the same thing is happening in tin-tops somewhere. How many more groups are we going to need in the club.

I guess it's back to the data we don't have.

Data.... Entries/participation is not falling on average. Could it be that the majority does not see a problem with the issue we are discussing?

I would theorize that the majority of current participants careers developed under the current possibilities of FCY and lost track time. It is just part of their event experience.

Brian

SCCA has been transforming itself to the Miata Car Club for over a decade.

I am strongly against any proposal to move to a single-race weekend. Frankly, I'd rather see the opposite - abolish Sunday qualifying and do two races on Sunday. This works in other orgs (some of whom combine practice/qualifying Saturday morning and run 4 races a weekend) and is how the two "triples" weekends a year work here in Texas (Memorial Day and Labor Day). Granted, part of the Super Tour's appeal is the longer races, which means the triple isn't possible, but for Majors I'd rather just do racing than an extra round of qualifying.

Raising the requirements to get started is not the way to go. This is already a tough hobby to get started in, with information being hard to find and a steep cost to get started. The old-timers are bemoaning the loss of some kind of tiered licensing system but attendance is down in a lot of classes, and in some regions there aren't enough additional events for someone to attend - making it harder for people to go racing is only going to make that worse. What was the old rule, 3 Regionals race weekends before you could do a Majors? Have fun doing that in Texas where there's one regional race weekend a year. It's utterly unworkable on the face of things, you'd just immediately kill off any ability for anyone to get started. I'm sure the idea makes sense in the parts of the country (areas with tons of SARRC/MARRS races), but it is bluntly impossible here. As much as I'd like to have multiple races in every month when it's not 100 degrees outside, I don't think the attendance would be there to support it. Furthermore, in the modern era with the prevalence of simracing, drivers showing up to racing school can already have a lot more of the "knowledge" in their head (flags, racing in traffic, etc.), it just becomes a matter of translating that from the screen to the real world, and you can only do that by actually doing live races and running closely with other cars. That's not something the point-by HPDE land really gives you.

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Originally Posted by JoshuaJustice

I am strongly against any proposal to move to a single-race weekend. Frankly, I'd rather see the opposite - abolish Sunday qualifying and do two races on Sunday. This works in other orgs (some of whom combine practice/qualifying Saturday morning and run 4 races a weekend) and is how the two "triples" weekends a year work here in Texas (Memorial Day and Labor Day). Granted, part of the Super Tour's appeal is the longer races, which means the triple isn't possible, but for Majors I'd rather just do racing than an extra round of qualifying.

Raising the requirements to get started is not the way to go. This is already a tough hobby to get started in, with information being hard to find and a steep cost to get started. The old-timers are bemoaning the loss of some kind of tiered licensing system but attendance is down in a lot of classes, and in some regions there aren't enough additional events for someone to attend - making it harder for people to go racing is only going to make that worse. What was the old rule, 3 Regionals race weekends before you could do a Majors? Have fun doing that in Texas where there's one regional race weekend a year. It's utterly unworkable on the face of things, you'd just immediately kill off any ability for anyone to get started. I'm sure the idea makes sense in the parts of the country (areas with tons of SARRC/MARRS races), but it is bluntly impossible here. As much as I'd like to have multiple races in every month when it's not 100 degrees outside, I don't think the attendance would be there to support it. Furthermore, in the modern era with the prevalence of simracing, drivers showing up to racing school can already have a lot more of the "knowledge" in their head (flags, racing in traffic, etc.), it just becomes a matter of translating that from the screen to the real world, and you can only do that by actually doing live races and running closely with other cars. That's not something the point-by HPDE land really gives you.

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Additionally, we have to stop thinking that SCCA is the only grassroots racing game. There are many more racing organizations that have a much lower entry bar than SCCA. Racing, at any level is about the FQ/$ - Fun Quotient per dollar. SCCA seems to be decreasing the FQ/$ and from the 2022 participation numbers most classes numbers are DOWN.

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Originally Posted by mmi16

Additionally, we have to stop thinking that SCCA is the only grassroots racing game. There are many more racing organizations that have a much lower entry bar than SCCA. Racing, at any level is about the FQ/$ - Fun Quotient per dollar. SCCA seems to be decreasing the FQ/$ and from the 2022 participation numbers most classes numbers are DOWN.

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Their position that only majors and runoffs count and indicate class health is both a mistake and an indicator that they don't believe it's a grassroots club. That is their mistake.

Geography determines other club options. Other than SCCA we have vintage out west. So for most out west it is the only game.

Majors and Super tours are cookie cutter events. We've has format and grouping discussions before. We're told changes are possible but they never seem to happen.

Some of this is off topic but it does touch on some things:

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Originally Posted by JoshuaJustice

I am strongly against any proposal to move to a single-race weekend. Frankly, I'd rather see the opposite - abolish Sunday qualifying and do two races on Sunday. This works in other orgs (some of whom combine practice/qualifying Saturday morning and run 4 races a weekend) and is how the two "triples" weekends a year work here in Texas (Memorial Day and Labor Day). Granted, part of the Super Tour's appeal is the longer races, which means the triple isn't possible, but for Majors I'd rather just do racing than an extra round of qualifying.

Raising the requirements to get started is not the way to go......This is already a tough hobby to get started in, with information being hard to find and a steep cost to get started. The old-timers are bemoaning the loss of some kind of tiered licensing system but attendance is down in a lot of classes, and in some regions there aren't enough additional events for someone to attend - making it harder for people to go racing is only going to make that worse. What was the old rule, 3 Regionals race weekends before you could do a Majors? Have fun doing that in Texas where there's one regional race weekend a year. It's utterly unworkable on the face of things, you'd just immediately kill off any ability for anyone to get started. I'm sure the idea makes sense in the parts of the country (areas with tons of SARRC/MARRS races), but it is bluntly impossible here. As much as I'd like to have multiple races in every month when it's not 100 degrees outside, I don't think the attendance would be there to support it. Furthermore, in the modern era with the prevalence of simracing, drivers showing up to racing school can already have a lot more of the "knowledge" in their head (flags, racing in traffic, etc.), it just becomes a matter of translating that from the screen to the real world, and you can only do that by actually doing live races and running closely with other cars. That's not something the point-by HPDE land really gives you.

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We are running a practice/Qualifying then 3 race format here in NER. The change this year has been to make starting positions for following races by fastest lap rather than finishing positions. So each race is basically a qualifying for the next race.
Advantages:
1. If a person is just doing the second day they may be able to secure a good starting position in at least one race.
2. You don't risk wearing out your car if you decide not to - 3 races is three heat cycles, more time on the engine, etc
3. The grid is more or less in speed potential
4. A "race" could be used for practice or trying something, as the amount (and cost) of practice days have been cut.

Disadvantages:
1. If someone works their way into a good position, next race they get put back by time.

I don't see this last as a bad thing - they get credit for the race finish and position, and just start the next race in the speed position that fits. It is the speed differential on starts that usually makes for incidents. This helps with the Green to Checker topic

As far as lack of race weekends - that is a function of entries - it is a self fulfilling circle - tracks need to promote a local clientele. If you HAVE to tow more than 6 hours (I know Texas and CA are big) then I might start to question my sport. This may be more to the problems on the west coast than anything else. The advent of temporary circuits may help. A strong autocross program SHOULD be the basis of a strong racing program. Large autocross tracks might be able to be turned into racetracks with some imagination. That is how the SCCA started - on airport runways.

As far as schools - I think iRacing could work with the SCCA to do a virtual school. You could do flags, procedures (how about a proper grid? Already can do pace laps. The only thing it does not do is go over car prep and handle the different classes. But is could be one of those alternate school criteria we talk about. Plus instructors can run with students and the review potential is phenomenal.

BTW - it was 100+ at New Hampshire this summer - my gut feeling is to move the Runoffs to the summer (most people are on vacation), Road America/Mid Ohio/Indy and change the year to a September to June Schedule. Might bring some of the people out of the South and the West when it is really hot. Weather is fickle, so don't tempt Mother Nature....

Chris Z

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Originally Posted by FVRacer21

A strong autocross program SHOULD be the basis of a strong racing program. Large autocross tracks might be able to be turned into racetracks with some imagination. That is how the SCCA started - on airport runways.

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That may have been true historically, and even then SCCA Solo didn't exist. Most Solo programs in the early years were small, local clubs. Now, SCCA Solo has become a destination activity for most participants. Yes, there are people who move from Solo to Road Racing, but not anywhere near the replacement rate needed to make up for lost Road Racing participation.

You're also not going to get Solo sites approved as race tracks. The process to get approval doesn't look favorably on the kinds of facilities that are used for Solo.

This isn't 1960 or 1970 or 1980. Cars are different. Expectations are different. Requirements are different. What was acceptable risk in those decades no longer is.

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Originally Posted by FVRacer21

BTW - it was 100+ at New Hampshire this summer - my gut feeling is to move the Runoffs to the summer (most people are on vacation), Road America/Mid Ohio/Indy and change the year to a September to June Schedule. Might bring some of the people out of the South and the West when it is really hot. Weather is fickle, so don't tempt Mother Nature....

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An interesting concept. Out west we can be qualified as early as April some years.
The summers months are typically off because of heat anyway.

Maybe a runoffs surrounding July 4th. People out west could be attracted to the June Sprints then continue on to the runoffs.

Again, interesting idea.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

An interesting concept. Out west we can be qualified as early as April some years.
The summers months are typically off because of heat anyway.

Maybe a runoffs surrounding July 4th. People out west could be attracted to the June Sprints then continue on to the runoffs.

Again, interesting idea.

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Someone can jump in here but I thought the Sprints were no longer the massive entry they used to be. Winning the Sprints was almost as good as the runoffs when there was 60 + in both the FF and FV fields. SM and SRF are still big but many of the other classes are down. Making it the Runoffs might restore it's status.

Unfortunately looking this info up led me to the SM crash - hope everyone is doing well - that was VERY bad.

ChrisZ

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Originally Posted by Peter Olivola

That may have been true historically, and even then SCCA Solo didn't exist. Most Solo programs in the early years were small, local clubs. Now, SCCA Solo has become a destination activity for most participants. Yes, there are people who move from Solo to Road Racing, but not anywhere near the replacement rate needed to make up for lost Road Racing participation.

You're also not going to get Solo sites approved as race tracks. The process to get approval doesn't look favorably on the kinds of facilities that are used for Solo.

This isn't 1960 or 1970 or 1980. Cars are different. Expectations are different. Requirements are different. What was acceptable risk in those decades no longer is.

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Peter,

I cannot disagree with what you are saying, but we have to do something. If you cannot bring the cars to the track, maybe bringing the track to the cars is th answer. We have to think outside the box. If not then outlaw street racing will be returning and we don't want that.

Here in NE we have 4 tracks within 2 hours and probably 6 within 6 hours.

Now we also have 4 or 5 "club" private circuits around. Most are not structured for full racing, but maybe need to be looked at.

I know this was an exhibition, but definitely a throwback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qixW5Jp88

What do you think?

ChrisZ

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Originally Posted by FVRacer21

Someone can jump in here but I thought the Sprints were no longer the massive entry they used to be. Winning the Sprints was almost as good as the runoffs when there was 60 + in both the FF and FV fields. SM and SRF are still big but many of the other classes are down. Making it the Runoffs might restore it's status.

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Here is a chart of the total entries to the June Sprints for the last 10 years.

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=104913&stc=1

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Originally Posted by FVRacer21

Peter,

I cannot disagree with what you are saying, but we have to do something. If you cannot bring the cars to the track, maybe bringing the track to the cars is th answer. We have to think outside the box. If not then outlaw street racing will be returning and we don't want that.

Here in NE we have 4 tracks within 2 hours and probably 6 within 6 hours.

Now we also have 4 or 5 "club" private circuits around. Most are not structured for full racing, but maybe need to be looked at.

I know this was an exhibition, but definitely a throwback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qixW5Jp88

What do you think?

ChrisZ

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While not a track inspector or reviewer, I recognize some things with that kind of circuit that are a hard no. They're using DOT concrete barriers, not racing barriers. The difference? DOT barriers are designed to keep cars from bouncing back into traffic. Racing barriers are designed to keep cars from getting into spectator areas. Also, hay bales?

If constructed to acceptable street course standards, costs will be in the same ball park as renting the most expensive permanent circuits. I don't see how that does anything to lower the cost of entry since those are the most important costs in putting on an event.

There has been an SCCA approved road course that is part of the Milwaukee Mile. That's in the Milwaukee County Fair Grounds within sight of Miller Field. You'd have to ask Milwaukee Region if they ever broke even on any recent events there.

I went to the June Sprints several years ago at the request of a customer. I was not enthused but went strictly as a business venture.

What I found was an outstanding event! It is the best organized event of the year! It is a spectator event and has an energy about it that is contagious! It is my favorite SCCA event of every year ...... by a country mile! I put the June Sprints on our schedule instead of the Montreal GP or a big race at Mosport, with no regrets.

All those exclamation points from this grumpy old man. Any perception that the event is no longer relevant would be from people far away that have never been, or not been recently.

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Originally Posted by problemchild

I went to the June Sprints several years ago at the request of a customer. I was not enthused but went strictly as a business venture.

What I found was an outstanding event! It is the best organized event of the year! It is a spectator event and has an energy about it that is contagious! It is my favorite SCCA event of every year ...... by a country mile! I put the June Sprints on our schedule instead of the Montreal GP or a big race at Mosport, with no regrets.

All those exclamation points from this grumpy old man. Any perception that the event is no longer relevant would be from people far away that have never been, or not been recently.

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There's a significant level of bragging rights for drivers to have won the June Sprints at RA. Some say, even more than the Runons for those in the Division. Ethan Shippert won in FF about 7-8 years ago in front of his friends and family from Wisconsin. His father was an FV driver 30+ years ago. He considered it the best win of his life at the time.

RA is described as the "National Park of Speed". The combination of a great track, beautiful setting, wonderful hospitality and a community that really supports the track make it a great destination. We were there for the 50th Anniversary of Formula Ford in 2019 and had an awesome time. I'm up for going again. People travel from Chicagoland, and surrounding areas in addition to the locals in WI to see some great racing.

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Originally Posted by DanW

We were there for the 50th Anniversary of Formula Ford in 2019 and had an awesome time. I'm up for going again. People travel from Chicagoland, and surrounding areas in addition to the locals in WI to see some great racing.

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There's nothing else like it as far as I can tell. Just watching Reid into Turn 1 is almost better than driving. The stuff other than FF, with owners camped in tents under trees in the paddock, is nearly worth the trip by itself. Like a step back in time.

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Originally Posted by DanW

Ethan Shippert won in FF about 7-8 years ago in front of his friends and family from Wisconsin. He considered it the best win of his life at the time.

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Admittedly, I don’t have a lot to hang my hat on as a driver. But that win is still up there with the best memories I have.

My in laws are a big motorsports/SCCA family. When my wife and I were first seeing each other, my now father in law was grilling a mutual friend who helped break the ice between Rebecca and I about how he should “help to set his daughter up with a doctor or a lawyer or something like that” and my friend replied to my father in law “how about a June Sprints winner?”

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Originally Posted by CheckeredFlag

Here is a chart of the total entries to the June Sprints for the last 10 years.

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=104913&stc=1

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If I saw it right the FF, FV and F5 was a combined race of about 30 entrants total. So the event is going well but not just for the non winged formula cars? Is this a function of competition from FRP and Challenge Cup (FV)?

btw - much of our regional racing is double dipping. Is there any statistics on Majors on double dipping entries skewing the numbers?

This is off topic for the thread - although mixed formula classes cannot be good for green to checker - but are we back to discussing a formula car problem?

ChrisZ

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Originally Posted by teamwisconsin

Admittedly, I don’t have a lot to hang my hat on as a driver. But that win is still up there with the best memories I have.

My in laws are a big motorsports/SCCA family. When my wife and I were first seeing each other, my now father in law was grilling a mutual friend who helped break the ice between Rebecca and I about how he should “help to set his daughter up with a doctor or a lawyer or something like that” and my friend replied to my father in law “how about a June Sprints winner?”

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You married well. Remember, you don't just marry the woman, you marry her family.

Has there been any substantive updates on data concerning G2C? It's been said that analyses were needed and we've had quite a few events since VIR ST, so where do we stand?

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Originally Posted by Peter Olivola

That may have been true historically, and even then SCCA Solo didn't exist. Most Solo programs in the early years were small, local clubs. Now, SCCA Solo has become a destination activity for most participants. Yes, there are people who move from Solo to Road Racing, but not anywhere near the replacement rate needed to make up for lost Road Racing participation.

You're also not going to get Solo sites approved as race tracks. The process to get approval doesn't look favorably on the kinds of facilities that are used for Solo.

This isn't 1960 or 1970 or 1980. Cars are different. Expectations are different. Requirements are different. What was acceptable risk in those decades no longer is.

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There are also a number of RACER$ that have left racing, for a variety of rea$on$ and gone to Solo to get their competition fix.

Just bringing this back up.

Was Green to Checker promoted this year? Didn't look like it.

ChrisZ

They mentioned it at most of the drivers meetings. I don't think I remember one where it wasn't mentioned.

From watching all the super tour coverage, I am certain the g2c % went way down this year. To be fair, there was rain at a lot of super tour events this year.