Newbie question-Vintage Zink

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12.05.21, 4:22 PM
pmroz1

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Newbie question-Vintage Zink

Hello All,

I've a longtime interest and intent to ultimately participate racing. Mechanically, I've built muscle cars/custom motorcycles including engines through fabrication. While looking for my next build (hotrod) I ran across this vintage Zink. According to the seller, the car raced in Cali 1970's/80's before being stored indoors for the last 39 years. Described as 'complete but not running.' Engine turns easily by hand. Sold with spare longblock, several carbs, intake manifolds and misc parts. Exact year unknown. Listed at $2900. Any opinions from the experienced here is appreciated. I'm not looking for the quickest path to the track, I ran across this while looking for a project to wrench on. Thanks again in advance

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=100752&stc=1 https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=100753&stc=1
12.05.21, 5:29 PM
S Lathrop

This car would be a great candidate for early vintage FV racing.

Down side for current FV racing is that this car will not be very competitive. The roll bar structure is not something I would allow out of my shop and will not meet SCCA requirements. The original roll bar height on this car would have been just above the engine cover. The proper driving position would be much more reclined to where the top of the driver's helmet would be even with the engine cover. Sitting this high has a detrimental affect on the performance of the car.

I am currently working on a Zink Z12 which is the successor to this car and I am doing a roll bar structure that fits within the original body work and meets the current roll cage rules in the GCR. When I have the forward braces installed, I will be able to supply pictures of what I have done. The long forward braces that terminate near the dash, may meet the rules but I think they are a real hazard to driver safety because if they are bent inward, the driver could be trapped in the car.

Another issue here is the fuel cell. These tall roll bars are frequently the result of trying to use the ATL 5 gallon wedge cell (or something similar)instead of a cell that has been designed to fit behind the driver but allow him to be positioned properly in relation to the roll bar so as to provide maximum protection.

Sorry for the rant but I hate to see good cars compromised.
12.05.21, 7:32 PM
Garey Guzman

Also know that the Zink Z5 FV won 6 SCCA Runoffs including 5 in a row! That was 5 different drivers. Absolutely changed the game when they came out.
12.05.21, 9:03 PM
BLS

"...but I think they are a real hazard to driver safety because if they are bent inward, the driver could be trapped in the car."

I never thought of that, it's a good point and warning.

The chassis appears to be unmodified except for the roll bar. As Mr. Lathrop mentioned, an excellent vintage racing candidate.
12.05.21, 9:55 PM
ralphtill

I was fortunate enough to win the North Atlantic Road Racing Championship in 1978 driving a Z5 against dozens of D13s. It was an awesome car. The good old days.
12.06.21, 1:03 PM
provamo

crazy

that you have not just bought this
12.06.21, 8:24 PM
pmroz1

Thanks to everyone for your opinions. Mr. Lathrop thanks for your detailed response especially regarding the roll cage. Again, from my limited knowledge, and based on the responses here, it seems a reasonable deal for the car with the expectation it would not be competitive outside of an historic class. I'm strongly considering the purchase. Any other opinions are appreciated.
12.06.21, 9:30 PM
R. Pare

Do it! While it will take some work to get the car in proper condition, it is one of the best classes to get started in, as the car will not be so fast as to scare you right away, and the competition is excellent, with a close knit group of guys who will be willing to help you at the track.
12.17.21, 11:05 PM
pmroz1

Quote:

Originally Posted by S Lathrop

This car would be a great candidate for early vintage FV racing.

Down side for current FV racing is that this car will not be very competitive. The roll bar structure is not something I would allow out of my shop and will not meet SCCA requirements. The original roll bar height on this car would have been just above the engine cover. The proper driving position would be much more reclined to where the top of the driver's helmet would be even with the engine cover. Sitting this high has a detrimental affect on the performance of the car.

I am currently working on a Zink Z12 which is the successor to this car and I am doing a roll bar structure that fits within the original body work and meets the current roll cage rules in the GCR. When I have the forward braces installed, I will be able to supply pictures of what I have done. The long forward braces that terminate near the dash, may meet the rules but I think they are a real hazard to driver safety because if they are bent inward, the driver could be trapped in the car.

Another issue here is the fuel cell. These tall roll bars are frequently the result of trying to use the ATL 5 gallon wedge cell (or something similar)instead of a cell that has been designed to fit behind the driver but allow him to be positioned properly in relation to the roll bar so as to provide maximum protection.

Sorry for the rant but I hate to see good cars compromised.

I purchased the car. Yes the roll bar had been modified to accommodate the original owner's height and I will have it reworked as needed to meet current rules and optimum safety. Any advice/details you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Being new to this I would also welcome any and all advice as begin restoration of the car. Thanks in advance.
12.18.21, 1:46 AM
BLS

"Yes the roll bar had been modified to accommodate the original owner's height..."

I'm 6'4" and raced a Zink just like that one back in the 70's and did it with the original roll bar. I suspect that a fuel cell addition may have changed the driver position, probably because of using an off the shelf cell instead of one made to work with the original design.

I'd just put it back to the original design and have a fuel cell made to fit.
12.18.21, 10:13 AM
S Lathrop

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLS

"Yes the roll bar had been modified to accommodate the original owner's height..."

I'm 6'4" and raced a Zink just like that one back in the 70's and did it with the original roll bar. I suspect that a fuel cell addition may have changed the driver position, probably because of using an off the shelf cell instead of one made to work with the original design.

I'd just put it back to the original design and have a fuel cell made to fit.

ECM Inc, Eagle Fuel Cells, has made a fuel cell that was designed for the Citation 84 FV. That cell design will work in your car and allow you to fit in the car properly. Using an off the shelf wedge cell as this car appears to have done, forces the driver into a seating position that is all wrong for this car or any of the Zink or Citation designs, The new driver position not only compromises the performance of the car but seriously compromises the safety of the car. The frame structure is just not sufficient to support the roll bar structure because of the increased leverage of the structure over the frame where the roll bar attaches.
12.18.21, 3:13 PM
BLS

Steve, I think you are saying that the standard Citation 84 FV fuel cell will fit the old Zink. Is that correct?

That would be nice and good to know for anyone racing vintage. Maybe they (vintage Zink racers) all know it but I never ran across that before.

Edit - And then I see where you earlier mentioned the possibility of an off the shelf wedge cell having compromised the seating position and roll bar. Don't know how I missed that.
12.18.21, 3:19 PM
pmroz1

Quote:

Originally Posted by S Lathrop

ECM Inc, Eagle Fuel Cells, has made a fuel cell that was designed for the Citation 84 FV. That cell design...

Mr. Lathrop thanks for the reply and your expertise. I've reached out to the manufacturer of Eagle Fuel Cells - From their website it appears they specialize in aircraft. Hopefully they can help.

Regarding the roll cage- Lacking the expertise myself, it seems my best approach to this would be to find a photo of the original Zink C-4 roll cage and have a qualified fabricator duplicate it with the rear hoop 2" above my determined seating position (?)
12.18.21, 4:13 PM
Garey Guzman

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmroz1

Mr. Lathrop thanks for the reply and your expertise. I've reached out to the manufacturer of Eagle Fuel Cells - From their website it appears they specialize in aircraft. Hopefully they can help.

Regarding the roll cage- Lacking the expertise myself, it seems my best approach to this would be to find a photo of the original Zink C-4 roll cage and have a qualified fabricator duplicate it with the rear hoop 2" above my determined seating position (?)

Eagle has a specialty department from which I have purchased 3 custom fuel cells in 2018 and 2019 (March 719 and two Zink Z16s, each different).

From my research on Zinks, the "C4" nomenclature isn't Ed Zink's doing. According to Ed's nephew, it's a Z5 and Ed cringed every time he heard someone call them "C4". So best of luck on your Z5, hopefully there will be plenty of FV experts to help!
12.18.21, 7:46 PM
BLS

"...find a photo of the original Zink C-4 roll cage..."

I'd try to find a Zink to copy from.
12.18.21, 8:41 PM
S Lathrop

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLS

"...find a photo of the original Zink C-4 roll cage..."

I'd try to find a Zink to copy from.

I have a very poor copy of the sales brochure that Ed made for the Zink FV. I will try and see what I can do to reproduce that brochure in a more readable form and make it available in a PDF format.
12.19.21, 2:02 PM
pmroz1

Quote:

Originally Posted by S Lathrop

I have a very poor copy of the sales brochure that Ed made for the Zink FV. I will try and see what I can do to reproduce that brochure in a more readable form and make it available in a PDF format.

Appreciate that. Thanks!
12.19.21, 6:18 PM
BLS

I have my old Zink in storage, all taken apart. When I have a chance I could take pics and make measurements as needed. That would have to be after the first of the year.
12.19.21, 7:33 PM
Garey Guzman

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmroz1

Appreciate that. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLS

I have my old Zink in storage, all taken apart. When I have a chance I could take pics and make measurements as needed. That would have to be after the first of the year.

BTW, I'd love to have the car info on the Registry I started almost a year ago! I need more info in the coming half year before my son goes off to college and gets his college life on.
https://redroadracing.com/zinkregistry
12.21.21, 12:20 AM
pmroz1

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLS

I have my old Zink in storage, all taken apart. When I have a chance I could take pics and make measurements as needed. That would have to be after the first of the year.

Pics and measurements would be very helpful. Please let me know when you get around to it. Thanks