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Does anyone have experience soliciting their local Regional SCCA to add a CFC class? Maybe it would give the guys sitting on some older FCs a reason to bring them out if they weren't having to be scored against the modern Zetec cars...
CFF sure seems to be working in some Regions, looking into this idea for SFR specifically.
If you show up it will happen. In SEDIV if you get "N" number of cars to show up at enough regionals, and petition for a class, you'll probably get it. But, first you have to get the count up.
You can always create it as a "weave" into the regular regional schedule on your own. You by the trophies, you write the criteria, you police it. Then get guys to register with the event as FC cars, and sign up with you for score keeping. That is basically what Right Coast does, as well as GLC, and V8 Road Racing, etc.
Decades ago when CF was just a idea and a few regions were recognizing the class for regional races, I went to the Indianapolis region of SCCA and offered to pay for the trophies if they would recognize the class at their regional races. The response from entrants was so strong that the region did not call on my offer because of the additional entries that class brought. That was the first CF race in the old Central division. The class took off from there.
With race organization budgets as they are, you have to consider the cost of another class and be willing to cover that cost if the entries fall short.
The next job will be to get the word out to the owners of the garage queens that it is time to get that old hardware out to the track. You might have to organize a class party for Saturday night to make the event more attractive for the CFC guys.
I had a totally selfish reason for doing this at the time. If the value of older FF could be increased, I thought, more guys could afford to trade up to the cars I was building. And yes, I did get some sales from the effort. But I got more thanks from guys who were now having fun racing the cars they had.
I am interested. There are two or three CFC cars here without a home as such. I would love to come over there some, and maybe also join Cal Club for a few races as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by troyt
ButtonWillow seems to be fairly central to NoCal and SoCal.
Do you have contacts? There's a race there in 3 weeks. Next one would be March (if SCCA).
Maybe you could start 'Pacific CFC'.
Last fall, PacificF2000 tried to get pinto cars to come to Fontana in October. Pacific had their own run group so there wasn't a mix of classes. They were going to run pintos in the group but as a separately recognized class within the group. Several people initially said yes but then opted for alphabet soup.....
I would think that would be a good way to go.
Like frog said do a weave and write your own rules. It's what we do in NWFC. This year we ran with three different sanctioning bodies.
We started with getting folks to come to one race and built from there.
Why even have CFC? Another class?
Why not let the older cars run at lighter weight with a bigger cam and include in FC?
Weight used to be 1175 for the older cars.
Because older drivers with older cars would need to lose limbs to get down there....:DQuote:
Originally Posted by RobLav
Seriously though, NWFC adds weight to Zetecs to even them out. Easy to remove too..
Easier than adding lightness.
Thanks for all the responses, please keep 'em coming...
Here's my thought process: I've been racing Vintage with VARA/SVRA/HMSA/CSRG etc for 15+ years, with a few seasons of IT and CF mixed in with SCCA. I had a CF Crossle that I actively campaigned in both SFR SCCA and Vintage for a few seasons, they had the same tech rules, same tire rules, I could stay local with SCCA (Laguna, Sonoma, T-hill) or travel for Vintage (Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, Portland, Las Vegas). I'm trying to recreate this perfect world for myself with FC. Vintage FC allows Pinto motors only, and the year cut-off varies by club, but late 80's to mid 90's is common. I'm actively shopping for a car that will fit my long-waisted figure (had to rehoop my Crossle to pass the broomstick test) and then I will be back with SFR SCCA and VARA. I don't mind running at the back of the SCCA Regional FC pack as long as I can stay in front of the FFs, but would like to be the Bay Area force for getting the older FCs back out with SCCA. That's why I'm gonna look into a CFC class, CF works great out here so why not.
I'm a Class rep and Instructor with VARA, and a former NASA Instructor, so I know a few folks in the sport. And while hunting for a car I've met a few guys with older FCs that just don't want to be scored against the ZETEC guys, but also aren't real happy running with old FVs. I plan on rattling some cages soon and try to shake out some interest...
You have a working model with 'The Series" Come up with a set of rules, voluntarily follow them, build the grid, and then negotiate for a separate or minimally combined run group with ALL the sanctioning bodies for given races in the area.
Rick, I need you back on the West Coast ;) Dropped you an email yesterday.
Building a CFC group like "The Series" would be awesome, car count would be a bit more difficult however, they just never made as many FCs as FFs. But its worth a try...
I am with you Troy!
Lots of 1990s FCs out there I believe.
a 1175 weight break would be nice, but best to not have too many rules.
Asking the Zetec guys to add weight will never fly...
Let me know if I can assist.
Paul
SF Region
FC 45 - DB-6
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLav
In NWFCQuote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
1175 for pre-90 (CFC by our definition)
1190 for all other pintos
1240 for Zetec
All are scored separately within each class, but we have an overall championship that combines them back together, plus older class gets points for finishing above newer class so there is some incentive for people to race between the classes.
While I agree it would be difficult to get the Zetec guys to add weight, it's not impossible. I think how we got them to add weight was the first couple of guys to get Zetecs thought it was pretty rediculous how far ahead their cars were and it was all based on how much more powerful (more torque, over longer range) their cars were. They actually proposed the weight change because they knew it was better for the class and group if the older cars were still included. I think ideally, most of them would like to get the zetecs and the pintos more even as the zetecs still have a clear advantage although it is much smaller this year than in years past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R
That being said, we were never going after people who already had zetecs to come and join us. We were trying to get people with pinto's to come out and race more. As the result of more people coming out to race AND having a Zetec rule in place that minimized the performance gap, there has been an increase in both late model pintos and zetecs to the field. Their are
More CfC's too in the region, but fewer have made it to races this year, although I know of a couple who will be in better positions to make it out next year.
So if you start out with a group that has no zetecs I would add the weight rule,1240 1250 whatever you want, then when they do start to trickle in as the club racer, not semi-proish, decides zetecs are the way to go, they do so knowing they will have to be at that weight. It actually works out really well for the bigger guys who would have no chance at getting down to min weight like their scrawny 16-22 year old competition.
If you have zetecs in your group already, ask them to run the older map if they won't get down to weight. Our group chose weight instead.
VARA "sort of" has FC1 and FC2 as separate classes. I say that because there have only been a handful of races where there have been both FC1 and FC2 there, and none in the last 6 years.
FC1 was rocker cars
FC2 was pushrod cars
originally there was talk about FC1 being rocker cars with early aero (wide-chord wings and no diffuser) but we felt that there were so few of those unicorns out there, and we didn't want guys to have to spend money to go backwards.
FC3 could be Zetec
We didn't do weight differentials because we don't weigh the cars, but the series does, so if you run at the same time there's an opportunity to use their setup.
All you have to do is have a plan for "orphans" - the 88/89 VDs with pushrod front/rocker rear for example.
Step one....make a list of every FC in the area, decide on a single race for all to attend in 2017 and start making phone calls and sending e-mails. Repeat until it happens
From my viewpoint as a novice FV driver, FC is the only viable open wheel class in conference. The very few other OW classes have very small run groups, so I have a solid plan to compete in FV one more year, then buy a pinto for 2018.
My biggest concern, and it's thankfully a minor concern, is that the FC field will be as large, or larger than it is now. I do see growth in the class up here, and the FC guys are having as much fun as the PRO 3 and Miata guys - really fun to watch.:checkered::checkered:
Well, I can promise +1 in FC for 2017. Don't see any reason why I would be gone in 2018.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jphoenix
I'm planning to have a 93vd available for rent next year. It's my winter project...:thumbsup:
Also, to get in contact with people who already have FC's, check out results sheets from the last couple of years from your area of concern. Then post the names of those people on a thread on here asking for their contact info. Then make a mailing list and send back and forth a bunch of emails with that group, have them take survey's, figure out where you are all going to make the time to show up at next year.
Like this: FC in PNW thread
When I started the thread, I had contacts for about 8 people on the list. By the next day I had 25. Currently have contacts for ~50 who have cars, or will be in one in the next year or two. Plus another ~15 who just want to keep getting direct updates on what we are doing as a series. Looking back at the original list is interesting as about 75% are still involved from 3 years ago.
Years ago when the SEDiv started a CFC class, the rules allowed those cars to be either FC or CFC..........so when most cars that could have been CFC showed up and stayed in FC, the CFC class withered after one or two seasons. No one down South has talked about trying CFC again since
CFC was in its heyday around 2000 - 2003 in the SEDIV. But, by 2004 all of us sold our CFC cars to folks up North and we bought modern cars. Court, Marshall, GR, myself, etc. We all moved up. We wanted to race Jim Morgan in FC. :o Then he went and took a sabatical and put his hot-shoe son in the car. :(
Here in GLD we have the GLC (Great Lakes Championship formally Challenge) that is herded by Keith Averill (as in herding cats). It has been running for 11 years and I have run 10 of those, first as an FC then when we unilaterally changed the year, now as a CFC (91VD) We always have 6 to 10 cars, usually weighted about even. We have enough cars that the regions will do a drawing for a free entry for us because we bring them so many entries. And best yet, you get to know everyone and then it becomes fun to run with your friends. Waterford Hills is a focal point because most members are from around there but last weekend at MidOh we had 4 CFC cars and 5 FC cars. Email Keith Averill at RacingStuff.com for details. Doug Brown
If you wish to contact me about the GLC series for Ford powered FC and CFC, use this address;
glc.series@racing-stuff.com
This is a series run by the group, I'm just an administrator
Keith Averill
If we could get all our group on track at the same time....we may have 16 cars!!! Great racers, great competition at all levels......
I got Cal Club to start up the sealed spec Miata class last year. John Stott, head of Cal Club approved it. All you have to do is find a run group to put CFC in. I had the only car in the class.
I have an 84 Reynard FC (Pinto) I will run if you get the class going in Cal Club.
Cal Club is a good group of people and John may be amenable. Let me know if you need another voice.
Bill:thumbsup:
No doubt.... but as I've said before we need to be more flexible and combine the efforts between CalClub and SFR. Then we'll have the numbers....Quote:
Originally Posted by William Manofsky
I've been compiling as much info I can on people with Pinto FCs. The issue is there are more active Pinto FCs in SFR than CalClub. But neither has the numbers to be consistent as a CFC group by themselves. Please prove me wrong.
Bill, I believe you've said in the past you won't go further north than ButtonWillow. I've had contact with SFR drivers that won't come south but I believe might reach out to ButtonWillow too - everyone has their reasons.
An effort is being made. Plan is April 28 @ ButtonWillow, June 2 @ Laguna, Sept 1 @ Laguna.
Has everything to do with getting car counts. Once we get drivers together and the like what's happening, everyone gets a little more flexible.
If you know of any CalClub FC drivers with parked cars have them contact me so we can communicate and move forward.....
Paul
Pinto Powered for the win :checkered: I'm having a batch of these stickers made up by a local print shop, laminated clear over printed vinyl, 3" x 7.5".
http://www.racingonthecheap.com/wp-c...8400109295.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
To make it to Laguna, I have to pull up two steep grades. I have to go over the 58 through Tehachepi to Bakersfield, Then over the hill at Paso Robles. That is a hard long ride on the tow equipment. Essentially my two local tracks are Willow Springs and Button Willow.
So you would see me at Buttonwillow for sure if I can get my shop to do a quick turn on my head.
Another one is Fontana. I drove that in my Miata at the PCRRC, but I don't think I will be going there again. That infield eats tires.
Bill
Haven't been over the 58 in 40 years. The grade on the 41 isn't so bad. Pretty short. This ain't the plain states ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by William Manofsky
Fontana is off my list right now too. Probably the worst condition surface out west and getting worse. :meatball:
So, your reason not to come north is tow distance. How can we expect those up north to come south. They don't like the tow from SFR.
But then again, look at the entry list for Willow Springs next week. 2 or 3 Canadians. They were in Fontana in January too. They must like the racing here.
OK, the 2017 season is starting, and it's time to step up. I'm going to start collecting a list of older FC car owners, specifically in the NorCal/SF Bay Area, but hopefully throughout the whole SouthWest. Feel free to use this thread, or PM me, or write me at troytinsley@gmail.com if you're interested.
I'll be racing my '93 VD with SFR SCCA, Pacific F2000 in their new Pinto Class, and with VARA in vintage trim. My multi-year goal is to get enough older FCs interested in coming out to the races that we can eventually start a CFC Class to run in Group 4 of SFR, and run with FC/CF/FF. Once we have a few committed crazies, I'll step up with some trophy money and proposed rules. Something like a 1175# min and a mid-90's cutoff date (since the SCCA Zetecs are 1200#, and the late 90's VDs went to the stressed member engine chassis design). Hopefully this interest will spill over into the West Coast vintage scene where the Wings & Slick Classes gladly accept my RF93 running in vintage trim.
If I get my motor in, I'll be at the SFR opener at Thunderhill next week. I'll be at Willow Springs with VARA later this month, and with Pacific F2000/Cal Club at Buttonwillow in April. Track me down for some stickers and a beer.
I have not driven the grade on 41in years either, so I may be over estimating the tow issue. I am taking things really slow with the Reynard right now because I am furiously working to finish the Lola T540E CF to have it ready for Formula Ford the Series with VARA the end of this month. If it is not ready, I will either run the Porsche 914 or the Reynard. So the Reynard is pretty much second priority right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
I have not driven the Reynard at all so, I am just hesitant t to drive all they way up to Laguna to drive a car and a track I have never driven before. SO the goal is to get the Reynard to Buttonwillow and drive the heck out of it to get used to it.
Not one to bitch but Fontana turns 9 and the series of turns T16 through T19 right before the infield just ate my tires up at the PCRRC. 17 through 19 are old deteriorating concrete like 60 grit sandpaper. Coming through there with the high side loading on the tires is like driving over a belt sander.
When I came into the paddock to get on the scales at the end of the final flag race on Sunday, I had a bald spot down to the chord on my inside right front tire the size of a baseball. Turns out I drove at least the last three laps like that at speed.
Bill