British FV

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02.12.15, 9:34 PM
BLS

British FV

While searching for something else I stumbled on a video of a UK FV race and interviews with drivers. Interesting specs, quite different from the aussies. 1300 engines with any compression, any camshaft, and dual carbs allowed with restrictor plates. About 90hp. BJ beams with discs in the front, swing axle and drums in the rear. Nice looking cars with multiple head cooling designs, bottom up and top down. Any 15x6 wheel, treaded tires (states dunlop but the 2015 regs show hoosiers) of specific size (spec tires). Space frame or monocoque. Most cars seem to be tubular space frame.

There is an A and B division. The only difference I can find is the "B" cars use the standard 009 distributor and the "A" cars can use an ECU type. Maybe something else...

The organization is "750 Motor Club": http://www.750mc.co.uk/formulae/formula-vee.htm

Interesting rear suspension in the video using zero roll but with two roll control shocks.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPD52w_LsOo
02.13.15, 12:50 PM
grapefarmeral

British FV

Interesting video...cars look a lot like Formula Fords... First young man interviewed seems to know a bit about Vee's except where they started... He though it was a German response to Formula Ford...
02.13.15, 1:08 PM
butch deer

Steve Lathrop shipped a few citation chassis over in the late 1980's. With modifications they were quite successful. Andres Serano ran a modified Predator very successfully in both the English and German series when he lived in Europe.
The Europeans abandoned the 1200's very early on. I believe that the relatively small number of cars compared to the U.S. let them update to more current VW parts
easier than the SCCA.
02.13.15, 1:27 PM
Agitator

Good stuff. Donington looks like a fun track. Lots of tight racing.

Everytime I watch Vees from other countries, I get extremely frustrated at how they all can use a spec tire without any controversy, yet too many folks over here just seem to want to throw money away. I don't want to start ANOTHER spec tire thread on Apexspeed, but I've NEVER heard a good explanation from anyone as to why it won't work. With the rising costs of other parts and ever increasing entry fees, if you think that tire costs aren't keeping some people away you're just ignorant.
02.13.15, 1:35 PM
butch deer

Kinda have a defacto spec tire these days. I don't get to majors anymore but is anybody using anything different than Hoosiers?
02.13.15, 1:57 PM
SEComposites

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agitator

Good stuff. Donington looks like a fun track. Lots of tight racing.

Everytime I watch Vees from other countries, I get extremely frustrated at how they all can use a spec tire without any controversy, yet too many folks over here just seem to want to throw money away. I don't want to start ANOTHER spec tire thread on Apexspeed, but I've NEVER heard a good explanation from anyone as to why it won't work. With the rising costs of other parts and ever increasing entry fees, if you think that tire costs aren't keeping some people away you're just ignorant.

A bit like standing starts too. Suggest that here and you'd think it would cause the end of the world as we know it.
02.13.15, 2:04 PM
Jphoenix

Quote:

Originally Posted by butch deer

Kinda have a defacto spec tire these days. I don't get to majors anymore but is anybody using anything different than Hoosiers?

I believe SFR is still spec American Racer. I run ARs because I'm a novice and there are many seconds I still need to find before I need the seconds from Hoosiers.
02.13.15, 2:23 PM
BLS

Quote:

...if you think that tire costs aren't keeping some people away you're just ignorant.

I'm sure it does. Since a lot of V drivers do their own work, the tires are a large cost. The standing joke around my house is whenever there is some unexpected purchase (like the new washing machine last week), my wife will say "there goes another set of tires" ;)

The video's I have watched of FV on treaded tires appear to show a bit less wiggle than I would have thought, but it does appear the cars slide a bit under pretty good control. Hard to tell from a video though.

I found the engines quite interesting. I would have guessed a 1600, but they use a 1300, which, IIRC, is the 1200 cylinder and the 69mm crank. So, they should have the same piston / cyl issues we have. Or not, they may have a source we do not know about. Plus they allow any compression, probably limited by the spec gasoline, and any cam...
02.13.15, 4:07 PM
nhJohn

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLS

I'm sure it does. Since a lot of V drivers do their own work, the tires are a large cost. The standing joke around my house is whenever there is some unexpected purchase (like the new washing machine last week), my wife will say "there goes another set of tires" ;)

The video's I have watched of FV on treaded tires appear to show a bit less wiggle than I would have thought, but it does appear the cars slide a bit under pretty good control. Hard to tell from a video though.

I found the engines quite interesting. I would have guessed a 1600, but they use a 1300, which, IIRC, is the 1200 cylinder and the 69mm crank. So, they should have the same piston / cyl issues we have. Or not, they may have a source we do not know about. Plus they allow any compression, probably limited by the spec gasoline, and any cam...

I thought the 1300 had a "longer cylinder"......

John
02.13.15, 8:02 PM
BLS

Hmm, surprise, the thread for British FV has been moved to the FST section. Now, I don't really care, but since it is not a thread about FST cars, why the move?
02.13.15, 8:05 PM
BLS

Quote:

I thought the 1300 had a "longer cylinder"......

I guess if I'm correct that the stroke is the 69mm, then a longer barrel would make sense. Have not looked it up and never messed with a 1300.
02.14.15, 12:04 PM
Bill Bonow

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLS

....but since it is not a thread about FST cars, why the move?

This area is specifically for non-USA FV. In the title block, International Formula First/FV

The FV section is pretty much for USA FV.
02.14.15, 12:38 PM
BLS

Quote:

This area is specifically for non-USA FV.

OK by me. However, just so you understand why no one else might know this, the path is:

ApexSpeed > Formula First >FST: International Formula First/Vee

:)
02.14.15, 11:16 PM
G.B.

I was a regular in the UK FV championship from 1992 until I moved to this side of the pond in 2004.

Most of the cars seen at the beginning were GACs, and I am proud to say Martin Farmer, who came second in this race and eventually won the 2014 championship, was driving my old car.

As Al observed, many of the cars look like Formula Fords, as their chassis were designed to fit proprietary F/Ford body work. This is possible as there is no wheelbase rule and most of the cars use a similar wheelbase to F/Ford, in the 90” range. I think FST missed a trick there.

It was good to see my old sparring partner Ian Jordan interviewed; we were both rookies in the 1992 season.

The Citations that Butch Deer mentioned morphed into the Spyder chassis. Peter Belsey is driving a green Spyder in this race. The back is similar, but the front is quite different with a pointy nose, ball-joint beam and rack and pinion steering. Jez Clark won several championships driving a Spyder.

As mentioned the series used Dunlops from 1980 until Dunlop ceased making them last year. It is the same tire used by Vintage Vee. They will use the Hoosier vintage Vee tire this year. Whilst they are a control tire, they are not cheap and wear quickly. I would probably go through at least two sets a season and you need to carry a new scrubbed set, just in case it rained. So they cost of tires is still a major part of the racing budget.

Guy.