F600 as FS

I have seen a few times where it has been stated that, in lieu of a F600 class, a bike motored F500 conversion can be raced in FS. Now that the new GCR is out, I thought I would read the FS rule set. Turns out that FS has a few funny requirements. First of all, their suspension system requires "springs" (I didn't check to see if the GCR defines rubber chunks as a spring). Second, the minimum weight is 750 lbs without driver. This would probably require ballast in most F600 builds. Finally, they appear to require mirrors substantially larger than most formula car mirrors. There may also be a few of the chassis construction rules that diverge from F500.
Looks like nothing is ever easy.
Marty

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Originally Posted by Marty Nygard

I have seen a few times where it has been stated that, in lieu of a F600 class, a bike motored F500 conversion can be raced in FS. Now that the new GCR is out, I thought I would read the FS rule set. Turns out that FS has a few funny requirements. First of all, their suspension system requires "springs" (I didn't check to see if the GCR defines rubber chunks as a spring). Second, the minimum weight is 750 lbs without driver. This would probably require ballast in most F600 builds. Finally, they appear to require mirrors substantially larger than most formula car mirrors. There may also be a few of the chassis construction rules that diverge from F500.
Looks like nothing is ever easy.
Marty

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We have already dual homologated F600 cars as FS with a waiver of the minimum weight. No problems so far.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

Marty, take a look at the last paragraph of the opening comments in the FS section of the GCR:

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Exceptions to the FS specifications must be requested with the homologation application and will be listed on the homologation certificate.

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Basically, any particular rule can be waived if the design meets current safety requirements and otherwise complies to the spirit of FS.

Stan

Interesting! A rule set where nothing is a rule. Well Stan, since you are in with the SCCA in-crowd, is there a cap on how many waivers you can have for any given homologation? Do you have to post your waivers for all your competitors to see or do you get to keep them secret? Seems to follow along with the Secret Car Club of America theme anyway.
Happy New Year
Marty

Actually, as I read the GCR, the only thing that doen't match up with the current cars is the side protection. That would be easy enough to correct, in fact most meet the requirement with the exception of the spacing of fasteners. The mirrors are legal, some oval "aero" mirrors may be on shaky ground for the area. The major issue fo FS is safety, some wiggle room is allowed as it is a catchall class.

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Originally Posted by Marty Nygard

Interesting! A rule set where nothing is a rule. Well Stan, since you are in with the SCCA in-crowd, is there a cap on how many waivers you can have for any given homologation? Do you have to post your waivers for all your competitors to see or do you get to keep them secret? Seems to follow along with the Secret Car Club of America theme anyway.
Happy New Year
Marty

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Happy New Year to you, Marty! :D

I don't know of any arbitrary limit to the number of waivers. In practice, most cars are already designed and built as something else (FA, F5, etc.) and their owners are looking to dual-homologate them in FS. To do that they list all the deviations needed to successfully add FS to an existing homologation certificate. In my experience the Club is very flexible so long as all the normal safety stuff is covered.

So if, for instance, you get a waiver on the minimum weight (i.e. an 850# with driver F600 running as a FS vs the GSR's 750# w/o driver FS), how do you square that with the new GCR requirement that:

Except for classes in which there is only 1 required minimum weight (i.e., ASR, FB, FC, FE, FM, FS, FST, FV, SM5, SRF), all cars shall display the correct minimum weight specified in the current GCR in a manner that is clearly legible to the scrutineers at the scales

In order to avoid confusing scrutineers, the obvious answer is probably 100# drivers.

With the potential for so many various vaivers, it makes me wonder why they wasted the time writing the FS rules in the first place. Why not just write the minimum safety standards and be done with it?

Marty

Marty, you're over-thinking this way too much. :p

Not really Stan. Just exploring the boundaries. If I can take my fenderless track day car, remove the passenger seat and obtain enough waivers to homologate it as an FS, perhaps I will rejoin SCCA. Or I will put fenders on it, get a waiver on the "no cycle fenders" rule and become an ASR.
Marty (Too retired and mellow to overthink anything and too lazy to want to learn how to post a picture of the car here)

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Originally Posted by Marty Nygard

Turns out that FS has a few funny requirements. First of all, their suspension system requires "springs" (I didn't check to see if the GCR defines rubber chunks as a spring).

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So here we go, Jay! FS is the place for my old FF car with a de-Dion rear end!:D:D:D

Just kidding...

Kip

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Originally Posted by Offcamber1

So here we go, Jay! FS is the place for my old FF car with a de-Dion rear end!:D:D:D

Just kidding...

Kip

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Go for it Kip.

Thanks ... Jay

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Originally Posted by Jnovak

Go for it Kip.

Thanks ... Jay

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All joking aside, since I am only 5-5 and cockpit size is not an issue, if I was to puchase a clapped out Red Devil (for example) with a blown motor, could I shoehorn a Honda 600 into it without having to extend the wheelbase?

Just looking for a less expensive alternative to running regionals in CFF or FF.

Red Devil's aren't a good choice as the design doesn't lend itself to conversions well.

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Originally Posted by Offcamber1

All joking aside, since I am only 5-5 and cockpit size is not an issue, if I was to puchase a clapped out Red Devil (for example) with a blown motor, could I shoehorn a Honda 600 into it without having to extend the wheelbase?

Just looking for a less expensive alternative to running regionals in CFF or FF.

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I have the smallest red devil with 73inch wheelbase and I di fit the motor perfectly no problem, just had to cut and elbow one of the left side frame tube. Took me like 2 hours max, real easy to do. Fitted 2007 gsxr 600 engine like a glove and actually I have extra space. Direct drive train fits perfectly also. One thing though you will need to re-design firewall and increase to the max anti heat barrier. Good luck and for clutch simply put it on steering wheel like shifter karts do and use a pingel electronic shifter and you are good to go

If you need a pingel, I have one sitting in a box that used to be on my DSR.

send me a price on the shifter